▷S3E12 The Boot in 20: Marche (with Tiziana Forni)

English

Feb 6

For the Boot in 20 series, an expert brings an Italian wine region to life, talking grapes, wines, climate and tradition–and advice for planning a visit! For the Marche, Rose Thomas interviews Tiziana Forni, a native of Ancona and a wine professional who specializes in Italian wines.

Tiziana explains the etymology of the plural region name "Le Marche." She shares sayings about and from Marche, and goes over the major and minor grapes and wines in this region, from white to red, to sparkling red, to co-fermented with local cherries and served over gelato.

Every Marchigiana we spoke to maintains that the Marche is a hidden gem that produces wines of excellent quality and value. Happy sheep wander the hilly countryside, (anecdotally) snacking on wine grapes, but only from certain vines. Studded with walled medieval towns and home to one of Italy's most gorgeous piazzas, Marche deserves consideration for your next wine trip.

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you have the fortune that you have the wine from all over the world.Experience, explore, don't stop to Pinot Grigio for Italy,Prosecco and Chianti. They are good wines. Of course, you can keep on drinkingbecause they are good wines, but there is an entire world to taste.Welcome to Modody Berry, the podcast about local drinks and local sayings.On your host, Rose Thomas Bannister.Today, I have the pleasure of interviewing Tiziana for me to teach us about theMarque for the Motodiberi series, The Boot in 20. In this series, I'll bring on anexpert for each of Italy's 20 wine regions for an educational overview. We'll talkregional history, challenges and opportunities for the present and the future, oil,climate, grapes, and wines, wine laws, and tips for how to visit. Whether you'rejust getting started with Italian wine or you've been a fan for years, one thing isyou can always go deeper in Italy. And there's always more to learn, so perfect forthis show since the Moto D 'Berry motto is to try new things, enjoy yourself, andnever stop learning. So before I introduce Tiziana Forini, I want to let you knowthat Moto D 'Berry is a listener supported program, so please take a moment to visitpatreon .com /modeo -d -i -b -e -r -e and become a supporter today.Tiziana and I will be here when you get back.So Tiziana was born and grew up in Ancona, the main city of the Marque region. Soshe's a native of the Marque. She started to work in the wine industry in 2003,which was really love at first sight seeing as at the time, she wasn't evendrinking wine. Tiziana is a wine educator and certified sommelier who moved to NewYork City in 2015, working as an Italian wine specialist for a wine importer.Tiziana, welcome. - Hi, that's very nice to be here with Rose. - You weren't drinkingwine when you first got interested. How did you get into wine? - I know, this isvery funny. I have all my friends in Italy that they look at me. I can't believethat you are a wine expert, when I would say, yes, like 25 years ago,I was not drinking wine. But this, I think because, you know, people think that theItalian are expert in wine. Maybe it's not totally true what it is that wine is apart of our culture. So we are used to have to see wine,you know, since the very beginning, when we are like a little kids. So for us,it's very normal to, to have wine in, in, in the house, in the family.So at that time, and the, the wine, when we were going to have a pizza together,it was most of the time the house wine, which I'm sorry to say, now I will be alot of enemies, but I don't like house wine, especially when he's not bottled.Because I, you know, when they were poor, this wine, I thought, oh my God, thisdoesn't smell nice. I can't have something that it doesn't smell nice. And my friendwill say, Oh, you are so do you say snob? Like, you know, like this, say, I,I maybe, but I, I don't eat food that does smell not nicely.I don't even drink that wine that doesn't smell nicely. Then it happens that Istart in '23 to work for a wine merchant. And I say, okay, I need to,you know, to start to discover this world. And so I, my first two wines were one,actually is a red wine from Marque region and is La Clima of Morro d 'Alba.And the other was a Gevurstra Miner, which is a different region. And I say, fromthe bottle, bottle wine. And I say, hmm, this is really quite different stuff.And that's how my one passion, born and grow up at that time,I feel really the needs to to get education, because I really could understandwhite, red, a little bit of rosé. Rosé at the time was not really, you know,a big stuff in Italy. And so I made all my education as a sommelier,certification, which is useful. You have to study. I love that it was a lacrymathat got you interested in wine, because it's a pretty unusual grape that you don'tsee that often. And speaking of the smell, it's very aromatic and floral. I thinkLacreme is beautiful. That's kind of purple colored wines in Italy that smell likeviolets and smell like roses. These are some of my favorites and there's a fewdifferent wines from that category and I just, I like to joke that, well peoplewill sometimes ask me for my favorite wine and it's like asking a musician fortheir favorite musician, like we just are going to pick one. But you know, if I'mfeeling feisty, I could say, well I like those wines that make my burps taste likeviolets. So anyway, it's a silly story. But before we get to the wines,do you have a local saying from the market to share with us? Oh, I have many.Unfortunately, I'm not that good to speak in dialect.I don't really have even a strong Italian accent. I would say is an accent fromcentral Italy, but people, they struggle to understand where I am from.But when I am in Nankona with my friend, I got like...So what was your experience with dialect growing up? Was it something you heard alot? Were you told to speak proper Italian? My mom and dad were like a very simpleperson, you know, believed that, you know, they, Russian in my dad lived,you know, was a kid during the Second World War, so they didn't really have thepossibility to get like high school. So you know, like a simple person,but I don't know, for some reason, we never talk the real dialects. I can't eventell why. But you still, you brought a Moto di D 'Ire, for us. A Moto di D 'Ire.The most famous, which is not nice, which is not a dialect,is in Italian, is meglio un morto in casa che un marchigiano alla porta.So better to have someone dead in your house than someone from the market knockingon the door. Why did they say that? Because Marche, first of all,it doesn't mean market, but it means border because Marche was under the Pope,under the Vatican state. But being Roma on the west side and Marche on the eastside, it was the border. So technically, how I say, the people living in Marchewere the IRS collector. SoSo, meaning that they were knocking the door to ask for taxes, and of course,nobody loves. So, when I'm in Italy, I notice that,you know, you will use the definite article to refer to the regions. And the reasonI'm saying "the Marque" instead of just "Marque" is, I think, it's like a pluralregion. What's the reason for that? That's very very true. A good insight becauseall the names of the region in Italy are singular. So you say "la",which is the article Toscana. In the case of Marche is a plural noun,so you say "le Marche", which is the article in the plural form.So the borders. So it's "le Marche", where you have "la" Toscana,il Lazio. Oh, I wonder why Lazio. La Campania, il Piemonte.Why are some of the regions masculine, some of them feminine? Because the regularrule in Italia is when a noun ends in O and I think Q,you know, when you speak the language, sometimes it's difficult to get out thegrammar rule, but in any case, ending in "u" is masculine, ending in "e" isfeminine. But Il Piemonte?Sorry, sorry. We are Italian, we have exceptions.But why is it plural? Because the singular is La Marca.La Marca di Ancona, which is the main city, La Marca of Osimo,which is another city, La Marca di Fano, which is another city, so all together LeMarche. So does Marca mean, you said it meant border, does it mean brand? No,no, no, no, no, it's from the Latin and means like the city, the town and so alltogether Le Marche means that they were at the border.Where is Marque located on the map? So on the map, I think, I mean, I can showfor the video. So for those that are just listening is central Italy and is on theeast coast. So on really on the Adriatic Sea. For those that they are,you know, on the video. Yeah, maybe you can show where is Marque. North isbordering with Emilia Romagna, on the west, Umbria, and a little bit of Tuscany.The corner is also, is Emilia Romagna, Tuscany, Umbria, Lazio,very small, and then Abruzzo. And Abruzzo, and on the east side is Adriatic Sea.So it borders several different Central Italian regions. You can see again, anopportunity for those listening is a little bit more difficult. The territory is likemostly hilly and mountainous. I would say like a 40 % hilly,maybe even 50, a good 20 -30 % mountains. There is no really flat land.Which is good for wine, right? Typically, some elevations and slopes. But Also, whatis very interesting, if you look from north to south, you see river.Okay. Oh, yeah. Okay. There are 15 rivers from north to south that they really flowup in a parallel way. And the shape of things like a big hair comb.Okay. Okay. That you have like a, And this is, you know, very good for the climatebecause of course everybody knows the water is, you know, thermal regulation. And soyou have this valley and you have the mountains with the breezy and cool area andyou have the breeze from the ocean. But also what is very important, this side atthe Balkan. So Mark usually have a lot of cool hair from the Balkans.And typically, this part of this coast is a little bit cooler. In the past,we used to have a little bit more snow. I am from Ancona. You can see that Anconais really on the water. But we had a lot of snow, typically. I would like to say,like, I try to say Modo di Dire in anconetano.So, if anybody from Ancona or nearby is listening, I pretty sure that knows and is"addiscore né fadiga"which means "a parlare non è difficile". It's not difficult to talk.Correct. Ma "a fare" which means "a parlare non è difficile ma ma adagire.Spesso è molto più difficile. Meaning that people talk,that's it, but they don't do anything. Can you say the whole phrase for us? Aparlare ne fadiga. That's everything. Okay. Oh, is fadiga like to make you tired?Fatica. Fatica. To make an effort. - Okay, so it doesn't cost you much effort totalk, right? - Yeah, all right. - So we would say in English, talk is cheap. - Ah,yes. - Yeah, talk is cheap, sure. - Or maybe,(speaks in foreign language) - (speaks in foreign language) - (speaks in foreignlanguage)- To buy, is that to bark? - Yes. - So the dog that barks doesn't die? - Doesn'tbite. - Bite, doesn't doesn't buy, so means that people,parts of that, you know, it's very agitated, screaming. Most of the time isinnocuous. Inocuous, yeah, those are great.What is the market known for besides wine? Of course, I mean, only Italy,I would say, is a beautiful country and all the region are beautiful.What I think is very appealing in March that is really an off the beaten path. Imean, people from, especially from the United States, if they think to go to Italy,I don't think that the first thought is to visit March. But I think that is veryinteresting, especially for those people that they don't want to have a mass touristplace, which is Marque. So in terms of what is well known, I would say that thein terms of beauty of nature, you have mountains, you have hill and you havebeautiful beaches. The mountains, especially there is a mountain that is calledMontepilato, sorry, the Lago di Pilato, which is a glass lake.There is no river. So it's just still, yeah, so it's a really, really beautiful.Then you have the Conero area, which is along the coast, and you have this, wecall Monte, it's more hill because it's 500 meters, that it really go in the water.And it's totally green. Then you have a beautiful formation, like, you know,like a small canyon in the south market that we call Calanchi, but also we havethe Grotte di Frassassi, which is our caves that are made with,you know, for the, for like the water still in that the forms of the stalactites.Yes. And are the biggest in Europe. This is a really a destination to see.This in terms of natu, but in terms of art, I mean market.which is called Piazza del Poporo and it's really like a maid of Travertina.It is something very, very beautiful. Made of what? Of marble. Marble.Travertina. Travertino. What is Travertino? It's a kind of, it's a white marble. Oh,wow. Sounds interesting. It's a kind of marble. I mean, I'm not talking of anconabecause it's my home. It's beautiful, but you know, when when you live in a place,maybe you appreciate less than the other one. This is, you know, very interesting.Maria Montessori is from Marche. Ah, OK. So that's a famous name about the schooleducator with the Montessori schools. Which in Italy is not a education system thatis in the primary school. Don't ask me why I don't know. I don't know the reason,but here is very famous around the world, it's very famous.Also, we have like a Giacchino Rossini, which was an opera composer.Tolkien now, I don't know. You are a musician, maybe you had Giovanni Allevi. - No,actually, tell me. - You just Google, he's a pianist. - Oh, nice,nice. I'll check it out. - Yeah, Giacchita, Giovanni Allevi. It's very popular,Actually, maybe I don't know if he never, you know, performed in the United States.We have also pretty famous sportsmen, sports girl,like in the past Valentino Rossi, which was a plurie for many years,the world champion motorbike. Oh, fun! Gianmarco Tambelli,that is an Olympic and world record in high jump.Sofia Raffelli, which is, how do you call it? Rhythmic gymnastics. - Rhythmicgymnastics. - And she's Olympic and world champion as well. Oh,and of course, I was forgetting. The most famous market,we are very famous for shoes. It's probably the most famous district in Italy andnobody knows. So we have Tots, Cesare Pacciotti. I would say very high -end brands.There is a district that is a little bit south of Aruncona.The city is called Civitanova Marche, all that area, which is really one of themost important district shoes. And we call Liscarpari. So let's talk about the wine.If you had a friend who'd never had a wine from the Marque, what are some of thewines you would suggest they try first? Okay, we already talked about lacryma. Ithink it's the most distinctive red. I mean, first of all, I suggest a native grapein any case, because of course, in Marque, we also plant Cabernet Sauvignon,Merlot, and Syrah, or Chardonnay. I would suggest a native stenative grape, and inred I think that Lacrimandi Morro d 'Alba is very distinctive, it's unique. I usuallydefine it as a grape that split the audience 50 /50,especially when not only, you know, not only Americans, but also Italian, that theynever tested this wine, they, it's so different that sometimes you,you know, there is the parts that say, oh say, oh, wow. And sometimes they say, Idon't know. It's sent those aromatic floral flavors can be floral, but it's then isdefinitely dry. A lot of spicy, like gloves, ginger,white pepper. And most of the time is not aged milk. It's from the grape.It's from the grape. But for white, - Of course, yeah.- Oh, it's so ridiculous. - Bidicchio, one of the great white grapes of Italy, right?(gentle piano music) Let's talk generally, what is the history with wine in theMarque? - In Marque, the southern part, we call the Piceno. So,Ascoli Piceno is the main city in the district, which we call province.In Marque, We have five provinces, there were four, but now they change five maybe20 years ago, I don't remember. So Askoli Piceno, the Piceno people came before theRomans. There are historical details that the wine was used also at the time,and it was also, you know, a pretty good quality for, of quality, of course, forthe time. It's very old. - It's a very ancient wine history,that's so cool. We already spoke about kind of the climatic and geographical featureswith the rivers and the hills. Maybe you could just give us a mental picture ofthe different zones and tell us a little bit about the grapes and the wines fromeach zone and then explain what those wines taste like. - Again, we talk about therivers, that of course are good for the, I mean, are good for all the farming,actually. And we talk about the Balkan stream. Let's think like kind of threedifferent area, which is one is in the coast, one is in the middle,and then you have the mountains. So in the cost, you are more like a sandy,gravel, and of course, marine sediment, OK? Seashells. Yeah,yeah, a little bit. Not totally, not totally, but yes. Then you have the middlearea, which is more clay formation. And then you have the higher hair, that is morelike a, do you say, like a rhenitic marley formation. In terms of DOCs, DOCGs,What are some of the most well -known or important areas in your opinion? In March,there is not really area, the D .O .C .G. are five and all this,the first D .O .C .G. was a one that probably nobody knows, "Vernaccia di SerraPetrona". Then there is "Verdicchio Rossoconero" or "Fida" and "Verdicchio di Matelicabecause they split the Verdicchio, the Castelli di Esi, Verdicchio di Matelica, sofive of the OCG. Before we were in the same disciplinary of the normal wine asunder reserve and now they are the OCG. So, Vernaccia di Serla Petrona, Vernaccia,what do you think? Is it a sweet or red? I think this is a trick question andit's a Vernaccianera. Is it a sweet Vernaccianera? - Is it sweet?- It can be sweet. It's like lambrusco. - Oh, is it sparkling? - Yeah.The Vernaccia negra, the OCG is a sparking. There are also steel version.It's a long process because first you need to dry.- Oh, you dry it with? - Yeah. - Okay, interesting. - You dry the grape and so Youbasically have a lot of processes to get the wine. So you dry the grapes,and then you make it into a sparkling wine? Yes. Dry, then you do the one making,and then you do the sparkling. So what does that wine taste like? You can have thedry version, the amabile or a little bit sweeter version. The most famous isquacquarini, think brusco, because it's a red sparkly, but more spice,less fruity, a little bit more spicy, which can be like of cloves,tobacco, a little bit of wild aroma.It's different, it's very different. So when you say the first, you mean the firstto be granted the DOCG? For people who aren't where DOC and DOCG are quality wineregions in Italy. There are other levels, which also have good wines in them,but people talk a lot about the DOC and the DOCG, and the DOCG is a little bitof a stricter level. - The DOCG basically is a extra guarantee for your region.It's a smaller area, you have very specific rules like exposition,Ophida, the OCG, or Veldiccio, the OCG is really related to the aerial exposition,ill -porectar, and then you have all the profile when the,you know, the OCG, the strip that you see in the bottle is released by the Chamberof Commerce. Basically, the producer, they have to submit the sample of the wine andthe chamber of commerce taste and make all the tests. And if they think the winerespect the rules, they keep the strip. So that's the part of it,that's this quality guarantee, is it's actually tasted by someone who's making surethat the wine fits and has followed all the rules. It's such an interesting process.So we spoke about the one that was granted DOCG status first, but maybe if wespoke about the more famous, maybe we talk about the red ones and about the whiteones. Should we start with Verdicchio? - It's generally like Verdicchio is the grape,okay? And they marked there are two main area. One is Verdicchio de Castelli diYezi. So Castelli di Yezi is an area which is much closer to the coast,okay? Verdicchio di Matelica. Matelica is the name of the town, which is really,you know, really under the mountains. So the Matelica has all the mountains. Verydifferent climate. The Verdicchio di Castelli di Esi is what we call costal.In Italian, we say is fatter, because it has a bigger texture. You have acidity,you have a lot of fruit, you have mineral tone which mineral does really mean alot but you have a little bit of flintstone it's it's rich it's white white but ithas really a lot going on. The verdict di Matelica on the other hand because ofthis cooler climate is a little bit leaner very elegant but a little bit leaner soit's really surprising how the same grape has a different behavior.I'm telling about less than one hour driving, probably stuff flow is one of thelast part of the Castelli di Yezi to Matelica maybe can be even 40 minutes,30 minutes driving. All this area There's this small town, they are all middle -aged,so there is the hill, the castle on the top and with the wall around,that's why Castle Castelli di Yesi, Yesi is the main town in the area. That soundsbeautiful. So characteristics of Verdicchio generally flavors, can you tell peoplewhat? If you're ordering a Verdicchio and you say, "Oh, this is a Verdicchio," whatare some of the characteristics that you'd The signature definitely is the almond,that it has this almost signature, but in a pleasant way, it's not a bidder.That depends, of course, from, you know, the production and everything, but we arenot talking about any specific brand. Typically is the almond that you really feelas a back finish for those that they can see usually feel like here.- You feel it on the end, this little bitter, like not bitter, but-- - No, it's apleasant bitter, it's a normal very pleasant. That's usually the typical signature ofVerdicchio. - And Verdicchio, I feel that the reputation of this grape and theexcitement about the wines in the wine industry has been kind of something to talkabout in recent years. Could you tell us about that? - You know, I believe thatVerdicchio, for sure, is one of the most popular white wine in Italy,because it has, of course, is one that can age, and I really,really invite everybody not to ask for the Karlan Vintage. You know,in a few months, the 2024 will be released for Verdicchio wait, at least 2023,if you find everybody, oh, I know I want the new vintage, but this wine reallykeeps the best after a while, because it's rich, it has a lot. We usually say unrosso vestito da bianco. The red wine dressed as a white, because of the ageability.Believe me, taste some, you know, especially in the version classico superiore,for sure, you will be very happy. In some way, unfortunately, the Verdicchio in thepast was considered a kind of cheap wine, like a pizza wine.There was some marketing process that probably they didn't achieve the result.I don't know, that was, I'm talking about like 30 years ago, and that was not inthe wine industry. Of course, I mean, the quality now is better, I would say forevery wine everywhere, because the specific, the farmer, the wine producer pay a lotof care in the vineyards, all the technical details in the cellar.So of course, the quality has improved for I would say. Sure, sure.But I think, I don't know, for some reason, at this, you know, consideration to bea cheap wine. A lot of times, I think we get confused by marketing or productsthat are available or widely sold, and then we associate that at least in Americanmarket with the grape, right? We think since they make a lot of, Pinot Grigio is areally good example. They make a lot of very cheap Pinot Grigio, but that doesn'tmean that Pinot Grigio always makes wines that taste like that. So Verdice I thinkis different because the, you know, think that the production in Marche is one tenthof production in Veneto. So it's a very tiny production. That's one of the reasonsalso because Marche is not well known for the wine. I mean,Veneto, Veneto, the Pinocrigio Prosecco Amarone, and the production is big.That was the past. And now, in the last, I would say, ten years, luckily, theVerdichio got back to be no more as a quality wine. So let's talk about the redsfrom the market. I just would like to add the one white wine in March that is,and believe me, is so popular now, Pecorino. Pecorino,of course. Pecorino is really on fire now. I struggle, you know, to present Pecorinoin Vildicchio because I like both, but now Pecorino. I think the people are alsocurious for the name. Oh, yeah, so tell us about that. Pecorino is a big successin the last 20 years because it was a grape for its characteristic that was almostdismissed because it needs a lot of care in the vineyards, but also the yield perhectare is very low. So think in the 60s, they were not interesting in having lowproduction, they were more interested to have big production. Luckily, there were somepeople in the market, some producers that they wanted to have these gray beck andthey found some raw pre -filocera just you know with old vines and let's say yeahold vines in a place that is called Acqua Santa Terme and it is very high like600 meters and at that point they started you know to plant in a little bit lowerarea and the very first bottle was vino da tavola, table wine,and then Marche IGT, 2001 DOC, and 2011 of Fida DOCG.So in Marche, Pecorino, if it's under of Fida DOCG, is the DOCG,because there is also Pecorino from Abuzzo, but now we talk about Marche. Of FidaDOCG, Pecorino. The progression that you just described, I think, is a good microcosmof the Italian wine laws, you can see something that these designations are kind ofa recognition of quality, progression in quality. No, well, what was important thatyou don't get the D .O .C .G. easily, the producer needs to be together. Having theD .O .C .G. in basically 20 years means that there was big interest and because thewine was, you know, non -marque is more a white wine region with pecorino and andverdicchio. There are other white wines like Bianchello, Ribona, Paserina,many, many white grapes and we should test when I have the possibility Garofanata.For me it's new. I've never heard of it. Ribona or Maceratino is the other whitegrape. There are so many. Bianchello, Bianchello It's more called biancame,and bianca is the name of the wine, but okay, red. Oh wait, but one more thing,tell us about pecorino, what it tastes like, generally. Pecorino is, first of all,why pecorino, the name. That's interesting, pecorra in Italian is a sheep in English.So pecorino basically is the cheese that comes from the milkhouse sheep. I thinkthat the region is very healing and we have, especially in the southern part of theregion, which where Pecorino is located, we have a lot of ships.During, you know, especially in the summer, the shepherd brings the ships towards thehill because they can get feeded, they find much more grass. It looks like theships love the grape. There are two options, that the ships love the grape or theshepherd was eating the grape. We don't really exactly know which is the trueprobably the shepherd because usually ships eat the grass. But there is this vision,or this legend at least, that the sheep were eating the pecorino grapes. Yeah, sothat's the name pecorino, which is a fun name because people think, because peoplethink, oh my God, cheese. It doesn't taste like cheese because it would be a bigproblem in a wine. I would say there is a lot of tropical fruit,especially Marquee is a kind of aromatic, is an explosion of flavor,very rich, very intense, where the vodka is a little bit linear,more linear than pecorino. Probably this is the reason why is,you know, in the last two years, believe me, the sales of pecorino below. Wow,that's such a good trend to know about. I love pecorino. I love white wines inItaly with that kind of texture. And I think because of this characteristic, this,you know, big explosion, you have this white wine that is really wrapping yourmouth. I love pecorino if you haven't tried one. Yeah. Get one. Okay. So now wecan talk about the reds I think. If we talk about the red, red grape production ofcourse the highest production in tons is San Giovese and Montepulciano.I don't know which one is higher but they are the biggest production. I wouldn'ttalk about San Giovese in March because San Giovese is such a,you need an entire podcast just for San Giovese, maybe for Montepulciano as well.Are the wines typically a blend of San Giovese and Montepulciano? Yes, yes, yes. Soif we talk about the wine, there is a very delicious blend with Montepulciano andSan Giovese and the name of the wine is Rosso Piceno, D .O DOC.I usually call the perfect wedding. Oh, tell me why? Because Montepulciano is alittle bit, it has power, it has color, but in terms of flavor,it's a bit rustic, can be, you know, closed. In the, I would say when you have a100 % Montepulciano, like a reserve, like something like this, it's the one thatneeds a little bit too brief, it's a wine that needs to get open.Where the Sangiovis, of course, is probably one of the grapes that has the eleganceand the smoothness and the fragrance. So I think it's a perfect wedding for thesetwo different characteristics of these two grapes. Also, Rosso Piceno is really agreat value wine because you can have, again, I'm not suggesting,maybe some people knows who I work for, but there are some wine in Rosu Picenothat really you pay around 18 on the shelf,but you think is much more expensive wine, especially if you compare to some Tuscanywine that are much more, you know, popular and famous. This is my suggestion forall the, you know, the American people. Of course, we are in New York City and youhave usually from Thursday to Saturday, almost every one store does in -store testing.Don't be shy. That's how I talk about Italian wines, but can be for every otherwine taste. You have the fortune that you have the wine from all over the world.Experience. In terms of white wine, explore. Don't stop to Pinot Grigio for Italy,Prosecco and Chianti. They are good wines. Of course, you can keep on drinkingbecause they are good wines, but there is an entire world to taste.That's really my passionate suggestion. I agree completely.Are there any other red wines besides the one you just mentioned that we shouldknow about? So we mentioned a laquema, we mentioned the nachanera,the riz. You know There's something that I've tasted, which is a wine made withwine grapes and cherries. I call it dangerous wine. Tell us about this.You're talking about the visually. So visually, first of all, is the name of thecherry. They are wild cherries. They are very small and they are very sour,so you don't eat as fresh fruit. usually the pharma, they pick up the cherry, theyput in this big green glass jar, under sugar or under alcohol,okay? Basically, you pick up the cherries and you macerate in sugar.You blend this syrup, I try to keep simple because the process is a little bitmore technical. Basically, this visually is a blend with wine and cherries.Then the difference is the base wine because typically at the beginning it was usedSan Giovese. In some cases Montepulciano San Giovese blend but I would say the bestresult is with lacrima di morro d 'alba. Because you have all the aromatic profiledramatic profile of lacryma, again, another perfect match with the cherries. So thereare not many producers doing with lacryma. You usually find the velenosi with lacrymaand lacryma di moro d 'alba in cherry or lucchetti. There's a shield on the bottle,and it's kind of a little bottle. Yeah, it's a little bottle. They are both littlebottles. The bottles are very similar, the label is different. So if you see thisvisual, right? Yes, chill is red. Think that you need to drink as a white wine.I know that the people say, oh, I don't drink this wine. I agree, you don't drinkthis wine every day. But this is very different. First of all, the alcohol is low,because it's around 14 14 .5. Things that an Amarone must be higher than 15.It's true, it's sweet because there is sugar, but you have the freshness of thecherries. So the perception is not sugar, it's more the cherries. First of all,you can even blend, for example, prosecco and espresso visually. It's a kind of likea royale. Oh, that sounds so good. In terms of food pairing, for me,the perfect pairing is chocolate. There is one dessert that you usually struggle tomatch with wine, and this gelato. Gelato, it's very difficult to match with wine,but in this case gelato or ice cream with the cherry. You can put a little bit ongelato, you can have a side that's, it's your choice. It's perfect. Cheesecake.Oh my gosh, let's go get some of that right now. There are some people that theylike with cheese. I am more on the dessert, but I can see some cream cheese,some very delicate cheese. Definitely it works. And again, my passionate suggestion isa drink, what you like with the food you like. Maybe for dessert is the onlyexception. Dessert needs to be matched with a dessert wine. When you go out fordinner and you're with a friend, just have fun. Yeah. Relax. If you have a wineclass, it's different, but food purring is very complicated. Yeah. So you don't haveto be complicated about it. Yeah. If you want to get into it, fine. You don't haveto overthink it or worry that you're not doing it right. Just relax. It's arelaxing time. I drink with my vintina, I drink with a friend, yeah.What are some opportunities and challenges that you see for the ones at the Marquetoday? The big challenge is that most people don't know Marque,so that's why when I go to sell my wine from Marque,I have this and this because this is for me my very first tool.Of course, one buyer most of the time they know what is market. That's I have tosay that the expertise level from one buyer is pretty high in the United States.And I am very sometimes I'm really impressed. But the first challenge is the peoplethat don't know basically anything about Marche, so that's I think it's veryimportant to talk about the region, the culture, because the wine in Italy is reallystrict tied to the culture of the region, to the food of the region.I think this is the biggest challenge, because sometimes the producers are tied tothe big names, the big brand, which of course they made a great job. Most of them,they produce beautiful wine, but they gain experience, experience the region.Maybe the first time you don't get, because it's very, you know, it's much easierto buy an expensive wine where you had the comfort area that the wine spectator hasgiven 95, 96. And in any case, you have this kind of soiled psychologicalbackground, it's much more difficult to find good wine at the right price.But there are a lot, that's for sure. It's a kind of a scouting job,I would say. - But that's a great tip for our listeners, if you wanna get, wewould say, more bang for your buck. - The market is really, that's the big point.It has really great value wine, price very affordable and great quality.On the other hand, they are not popular. They are not well -known. - Well, we canchange that today with this podcast episode, to use it everywhere. So how is thisregion being affected by climate change? - I have to say that Since 2020, 2021,2022 and 2023, very hot. Still thanks of the Balkan stream,we still have some benefit that is doing a little bit of thermal regulation.I believe that the farmer everywhere in Italy, they need to consider this and theyare already considering this climate change. For example, I remember that in 2021,I visited Calabria, and it was very hot here, and therefore all the vineyards weretotally barred, and everything was pretty green. And they say, "Why?" I say,"Oh, we're used to have hot climate, so they have much more leaves covering." It'snormal. Maybe the problem was not even the central Italy, but more in the north,that they had this, you know, cap. But I'm pretty sure that you already, you know,arrange, fix the problem in the vineyards. Meaning that if there's a lot of sun,you might leave more green leaves to shade the graves so they don't get sunburned.Maybe you need to learn from the south how to adjust to I am not a viticulture,but now you have all the hybrid gray, but this is very technical. Sure, sure, sure.You need more acidity, but it is very technical. Working in the vineyards probablyis like to give more coverage with the leaves. They have more protection. So isthere anything else you want the world to know about the Marquee? Okay, so when youvisit Italy, first you can't miss Rome, please. visit Rome.After Rome, consider Mark.You have a 20 region, of course. I'm not saying of course, Venice is beautiful.I mean, all the region are beautiful. I don't know where is an ugly place inItaly. Everywhere is beautiful. But you know, consider this region, it's not onlyMark, there are other regions that are not well known like Tuscany, Veneto,Sicily, Piemonte, Na Puglia.if there's someone here in New York where you're working as a wine expert and youpromote these grapes. If someone from an importer or in the education realm wants toget in touch with you and work with you, how can people find you and know aboutyou? I am on Instagram is @tiziana .forney which you can share my email.It's on which is tiziana .forney @gmail .com. So I am LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook.So if you want to work with Tiziana, you know how to get in touch, I can helpconnect you. She's here in New York doing importer work, wine education, consulting,etc. I define more Italian wine specialists. This Italian wine specialist is availablein New York if you need one, and I appreciate you coming on the show today. Thankyou so much. It was wonderful to speak with you. Thank you so much. Oh, a funfact too. You may recognize Tiziana's voice because Hanna was the voice actor forthe one episode that we did in translation, season one, episode eight and nine. Idid an interview with Lindsay Spear, which was a very important interviewlinguistically for me. We transcribed, translated, and recreated the episode with avoice actor, and after that that was a tough word. That was the one time we didthat where someone just spoke English. We made it available in Italian, so if yougo to the Italian podcast, you can hear Tiziana's voice. Check that out. And if youdidn't know, you can listen to this podcast in Italian, Motodiberi Italiano. Or ifyou're listening to this on YouTube, Motodiberi podcast, you can go to the Italianplaylist and see those videos. It could be a language learning tool. So if you usethe podcast as a language learning tool, please let me know. I want to hear howthat's working for you to our listeners. Thank you. Wherever you go and whatever youlike to drink, always remember to enjoy your life and to never stop learning.Support us on Patreon, grab the newsletter at MotoDBerry .com and subscribe to theYouTube channel at MotoDBerry to watch the travel show MotoDBerry TV. Music for theshow was composed by Arcilia Prosperi for the band Oh! Purchase their music at thelink in the notes.