▷S2E8 Sparkling Wine from The Mountains: Trento DOC with Alessandra Caroni
As an advocate for small growers with her company Wine Soul, Alessandra Caroni educates us about Trento DOC, a sparkling wine made in the classic method from grapes grown in the Dolomite Mountains. Maso Martis is the organic brand she represents in Trento DOC. These wines from the Northern Italian region of Trentino area fantastic value for sparkling wine fans who are shopping outside the champagne box.
(For another example of champagne method wine, known as "metodo classico" in Italy, check out Season 2 Episode 6, where Susannah Gold explains this method with the example of another Italian sparkler, Franciacorta.)
Alessandra didn’t come from a winemaking family, but in Italy wine is just a way of life. Alessandra originally wanted to be a model. Instead, her foreign language study helped her become an export manager for a large Lambrusco company. An adventure tasting wine from the barrel at organic wineries all over Italy caused Alessandra to become so passionate about small farms that she changed the direction of her career so she could champion families who are involved with every part of the process of making wine.
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We also discuss Ferrari wines, which have nothing to do with the Ferrari car family--though they have been the official toasting wine of Formula One racing! Giulio Ferrari had a vision from the beginning of the 20th century that gradually inspired farmers to make traditional method wines in Trentino from the same grapes used to make champagne: Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, and Pinot Meunier.
Learn more about Alessandra’s company: winesoul.it
The wines that are described from the tasting are by Maso Martis: https://www.masomartis.it/en/
Recording with Alessandra was a spontaneous opportunity and we lacked an ideal location. As a result, there is some background noise.
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and would tease the difference from Trentino to for example Franciacorta or other sparkling areas. The Trentino is in the Dolomites, it's mountain, so the territory, the soil and the climate is amazing with a very big difference between night and day and with the mountain air and with the soil that is the typical Trentino red rocks. So if you had the occasion to come to Masmartis and we have just planted some new manure and you see the red rocks all over there, it's a really, really beautiful place. (upbeat music) - Welcome to Modo di Bere, the podcast about local drinks and local sayings. I'm your host, Rose Thomas Bannister. I'm here today with Alessandra Caroni, who has a passion for small wineries and works to help them bring their wines to international markets. She founded a company called Wine Soul, and she is also a writer, a judge, an educator, and a member of ICE, the Italian Sommelier Association. Alessandra, welcome. Oh, thank you so much. Very, very happy to be here with you. We are meeting for this interview today at a hotel near Central Park, but Alessandra and I met yesterday at a tasting of the wines of Trento Doc, an area in the northeast of Italy that makes sparkling wines in the Dolomite Mountains. Alessandro was pouring the wines of the organic producer Maso Martis. Alessandro, Maso Martis is one of your clients, but are you yourself from the Trentino region? No, I am from Reggio Miglia, which is in Emilia Romagna, close to Bologna, I don't if you were being there, is about 200 kilometers from Trento. And what's happened is that our region, my place, Modena, Regimiglia, that is the food valley, so well known for basomic vignegar, Parmigiano Reggiano, and Lambrusco. So We were born with lambrusco, drinking lambrusco, and lambrusco is bubbles. So we are used to drink bubbles, and we are in love with all the bubbly wines. So when I met, I visited Muslim artists, I was in love with them, with the place, with the people, with the wines. I really loved the wines. It was 2007. And then, so, you know, more than 15 years ago. And so I started then with them. And it's a very, very beautiful estate, but wines and people are great. Yes, I definitely agree. I really liked the wines that I tasted yesterday. So I like to start the show by asking people for a local saying. What do people sound like? If you see someone and you hear them talking and you say, "Ah, you're from Reggio Emilia." Yes, yes. When I travel through Italy and all my friends make jokes with me because they hear my accent. We have a particular way of saying the see and the Z that everybody, everybody can identify us that we are from Emilia. Can you give me an example in Italian? Oh, yeah, the pizza, the Z is very, very hard, or also the C, both in Emilia and the Romagna, all over our, our region. I don't know what kind of word I can tell because for me it's normal. That's what the other is a little bit different. What about like the hard C or the soft C? The soft one. The soft one is the C for us. And the Z are really very, very particular. everybody in Italy can recognize us. So if you are interested in using the Moto Dewberry podcast as a help to you in studying English or Italian, we also have the same interview with Alessandra in Italian. So if you go to the Moto Dewberry Italiano podcast, you can hear a little more of Alessandra's Reggio Emilia accent, and also maybe you pick up a few words of Italian along the way. So it can be kind of a fun language learning tool, I hope for people. If you're using the podcast in that way, please let me know. You can always send me an email at my website, mododberri .com, or send a DM on Instagram @mododberri. I want to hear if anyone is using the episodes back to back to study English or Italian, I hope that it's helpful to you. When I was studying Italian early on and still to this day, I like to listen to wine podcasts in Italian. It was something that had helped me. So speaking of Trento Doc, can you tell us a little bit more about the history of this region for sparkling wines? Yeah, Trentino is really amazing for sparkling wine. Trento Doc, it is a promotion institute which was born in 2007 and the DOC some years before, so 1997 I think, or and so it's young because if you think to Champagne is a history of 200 years so we are very young the train to dock is very young but the farmers who produce train to dock are really people that lives there and lives the territory it's amazing, compared to the Champagne, it's very small, we are speaking of small numbers. There are mainly three big companies, but the others are really very small producers. And which is the difference from Trentino to, for example, Franciacorta or other sparkling areas. the Trentino is in the Dolomites, it's a mountain. So the territory, the soil and the climate is amazing with a very big difference between night and day and with the mountain hair and with the soil that is the typical Trentino red rocks. So if you had the occasion to come to some as an artist and we have just planted some new many and you see the red rocks. are amazing people come to ski there from all over the world and so the territory also the vineyards go from 200 to 1000 meter altitude and so and in some areas with a very very difficult also place to pick up grapes because the territory is hard. It is an heroic viticulture, really, very beautiful. I noticed a lot of incredible acidity and also minerality in the wines. And even these wines that I tasted yesterday at the Trentedoc tasting that were aged as much as 60 months on the lease still had an incredible acidity and freshness. Does that have to do with the soil, or is it the elevation, maybe both? Both, both. The territory, both. The soil, the climate, the air, the breeze, the mountains, all together, as the French said, the terroir. That's it, all together. And yes, you're right, there is minerality, There is a freshness, both a very good body, very direct wines, fine, elegant, very, very beautiful place where sparkling can be cultivated and Trinitodoc add a really good success, big success also in Italy in these last years. It this booming really. So my understanding is that the French grapes of a long, long history in this in this particular area and also a long history of making sparkling wine, but that it was really in the the 70s or 80s that things started to begin for the Trento Doc name. Is that right? And what was what was the story there? But the first person that gives something to Trentino was Giulio Ferrari. Giulio Ferrari understood at the beginning of 19 that Trentino could be a real praise for the sparkling wine and that's the start of this story And then the farmers believe in it, and so they were clever to believe in it and to start this project. But the first person, and also there is now the wine, Giulio Ferrari, with his name that is always one of the top of our sparkling wine. I see, you see it at the auto racing, right, with the Ferrari, it's a very big celebration yeah yeah it was in Miami yeah yeah no of course not related at all to the to the car different Ferrari right yeah you know it is different the Ferrari's of my area the car is Modena so it's my area while Giulio Ferrari and and the company wine estate Ferrari's Trentino yeah yeah but a good ship now and we are happy that the Trento dock could be a witness of the car, of our motor, motor valley also we can say. I understand that there are really strict rules for the Trento dock, more so strict than champagne. Everything from vine training to the amount of time aging, can you tell us something about those requirements and what they do for the wine. Yes, also there are some rules for sustainability because it is very important. We know that also with this problem that we have in our society, sustainability is the most important thing. So there are the rules that every producer must look at um yeah look at because uh but it is also uh more easy easier in a territory like Trentino than for example in our region i think they are in the mountains so the nature is number one then we have also agent rules for a Reserva needs to be on the list for at least 36 months for a millesimato, so a vintage, at least 24. So strict rules in order to have a very high quality product. That is the aim, and I think that the results say it is I really liked the Marsa Martis wines, I was really happy to see that it was an organic farm. I thought the Blanc de Blanc was delicious. The Dosage O Zero Reserva that I tried with the portion of the Barrel H Chardonnay was so intense and luxurious, like so much flavor, it was almost like a meal, really complex. And I think my favorite was the extra Brut Rosé. Wow, the Rosé is amazing. I love it. Really amazing because Pinot Noir, I'm in love with it and also the family of Mazumartis, Stelzer, Roberta and Antonio, now their daughters, are in love with Pinot Noir. And so in all their serve wine, the main part is Pinot Noir and with their rosé is 100 % Pinot Noir. I could really feel the expression of that grape and the character of the grape. And it just had such a fresh finish, such great aromas and flavors. I really liked that one. And you mentioned, too, the red rocks when we were trying that, that there was the influence of the minerality. The soil gives, yeah, minerality, gives the structure, gives fineness and elegance. In fact, all the wines have the same line, the same philosophy, it is the elegance. You find very, very elegant wines in all our types, and you taste it three, but then we have a pure menier, on the Passemenier, that is our last baby, we can say, and our top reserve that is Madame Artis, nine years on the list, it is amazing really. If you taste a small glass of it, you need to drink a bottle because it's very well balanced, very complex, always elegant, and I think the harmony. For people who have really enjoyed wines from the Champagne region and are interested in trying a new terroir for these wines, maybe something that I haven't tried before, I think, that the Trento Doc has been winning a lot of awards and gaining a lot of recognition for really this century or more of work on these wines. And I was so happy to get to discover a little more about those wines yesterday at the tasting. It was really a pleasure. I thank you so much because you are interested in this piece of land because I think that it is amazing. For people who want to try something else, they can find really very high quality wines there. - I think it can be really interesting to see how a grape can find new expression in a new place. I'm always interested in the innovations that people take and the things that people try, humans in the world, saying, oh, well, what would happen if this grape was planted here, if this grape was planted here, but what would you say to the people who really, I think I would include myself in this, who are just really fascinated in this moment with the Italian varieties? Why should they be interested in the French varieties being planted in Tritino? What makes them special and why should that story be interesting? Tritino It's a very different characteristic from Champagne, in a completely different territory, but the grapes found in amazing places where they can give the best of themselves. And this mountain, this breeze that comes from the Garda Lake also. And the soil, this red chalk is amazing. I think that could be something really that can have their niche because the quantity are not so small, but the quality could be really very, very, very high in comparison with champagne. It could They tell you one. Yeah. I love drinking bubbles. It's one of my favorite things. I think it's such an interesting process, an interesting story. And to hear, I can see why everybody in the world wants to try to make some bubbles, too. And to make the best bubbles that they can. And I'm excited to see consumers trying some of these regions where maybe they haven't tried bubbles from that place before. And I see I see metatoclossic wines coming from all over Italy in a sense as a new trend with all different kinds of grapes and a real interest in this high -quality process. So I think Trencha Doc is really cool because there have been all of this time and thought and farming and interest into getting this great result which I got to taste yesterday and it was so impressed. How did you get into wine Alessandro? Are you from a winemaking family? No, not at all. It was just just life. When I finished the school, I studied languages, foreign languages, and I want to be a model. And when I was 20, that's my dream. But then I don't want to leave my family, and so it doesn't work with model jobs. And so I had at that time, seven interview with the companies in the area to do when the first one was a winery. And the managing director was looking for a secretary that can speak foreign languages because he didn't speak languages. And so, okay, let's I started like that. What languages did you study? English, German and French. Wow. So, yeah, I like language, but I like English. You smile a lot. And so, after the interview, he said, "Okay, I give you this job if you accept, and please pick up 12 bottles, go home and taste And then you will you were right for every bottle. What do you think about that? So, what did you think? No, I When I was 20 I didn't drink wine perhaps the disco some room or whiskey, but not wine and So it was the the first time in this in this world and and And then I understood everything, what's happening in vinification, but after being the secretary for one and a half year, then I'd be part of the expert office, and then in two years I will be, I became an expert manager. And then For 15 years, I was the expo manager and then But I feel that I don't I do not know enough about wine So I studied at Somalia and I met a Winemaker consultant Who followed the mainly organic wine estates. I asked him to go with him to visit this wine estate and it opened me a world. So I traveled through Italy from Sicily to Veneto to all over the Italian wine estates, mainly organic wines and so I can see what was happening in the small wine estates. So the vineyard, the real quality, picking up the grapes by hand and making the wine. So the wine maker told me, "Okay, now we taste the wine in the barrels and then please remember them because in two months we go back, we come back, and you have to remember how was the wine and how it changed. It was amazing, really, a really education that helps me a lot in my job. So I decided to stop with the old expo manager job because there were very big estate, so in this industry, where Lambruzco were produced. And I decided to help small, high quality wine estate to go on the international market. It happened I'm so glad you got to have that adventure. I also have a passion for small producers from Italy and also for traveling Italy, visiting them. What for you defines a small estate? Tell us some of the specific ways in your experience that those two things were very different and made you change directions in this way. Yeah, a small one is said, normally are family owned, but it could be also a group of people, but usually they pick up grapes by hand. They are usually producing until 100 ,000 bottles, more or less this is, but also 200 ,000. They are still very very small volume, but usually the owners take part of the life of the wine estate and working with winemakers. It is very very important to know the wine estate from how they pick up the grapes, how they make wine, what kind of wine they want to do and the best person in charge for that is the winemaker, and the analogist. And so I know that a lot of the analogists working for many wine estates, and so I know the estate from the inside. And it is helpful for understanding what is their philosophy, and what do they think about wine. When I met Mazumartis it was just fun. It was a friend of mine that was Miles Sales representative for Trentino, for Lambrusco, and he told me, "Please come, I would like to introduce you to a beautiful wine estate so you like bubbles. You can And that's, it was an exception because usually my friend andologist tell me, "Please, taste this wine or come to visit this one, taste this one." And then, okay, the wines, the quality of the wine is important, but then understood that the most important thing are the people. Yes, definitely. And I love meeting these family -owned vineyards. It's really a special experience, especially to hear about the stories about these connections with the land that go back so many years. Thank you so much for coming to speak with us about the sparkling wines from the mountains from Trento Doc. But I wonder if you can tell us more about wine WineSoul, tell us about your website, how people can find out more about the other small farmers that you work with. Oh yeah, thank you to you, Rose, because for your attention and for your love for our places. And yes, I have a website, WineSoul .it, where you can find some of my wine estates that I follow. I follow, as I told you, small wine estate, there are some from Tuscany, one from near Rome, close to our capital Rome, and one in Emilia Romagna, so where I live, and all different, so all different, and all from very, very nice people, very particular products like the one in Rome from from a volcanic area, nobody would think about it, but it's a very beautiful place. All of them are organic, working in organic, because I think, as I said before, sustainability now is the first of our aim, it must be, and it witness also that it is possible to produce organic wines, but really of high quality and yes, that's that's it or also some wines from a small island in in Tuscany, this is a little Gio. I wish you can go. I've never heard of this. Yes, amazing place. Sounds very exciting. Islands are always the most fun. So this is WineSoul .it, where people can check out their work. - Yeah, yeah, that's right, and my email, alessandra .c @winesoul .it, but you can find it on my web. - Fantastic, I'll also put that information in the notes for the episode. Thank you so much, Alessandra, for being with us today at MotoG Berry. - Thank you so much, Rose. (gentle music) [Music] Thank you so much for listening to the last episode of the year. 2023 has been an amazing year when I have devoted myself to sharing stories about local culture through drinks and dialect. I launched MotoG Berry on the last day of February after working on the concept for about a year in some ways longer. I took a small business class and received instruction in audio and video editing and animation. The hardest thing I had to do, which is something you can't take a class to learn how to do, is to take a leap and try something new. In this case, taking my career as a sommelier and a beverage professional in a creative educational direction. That's also the part I'm most proud of, along with not giving up when things didn't always go as planned. But it's been a fantastic year. Between the Italian and English podcast, I've recorded, edited, and released 37 episodes. I've met winemakers, olive farmers, cowboys, people on the street and asked them to share their local idioms. I documented these experiences by creating and sharing over 120 short videos about local drinks and local language on social media. And I filmed a TV show together with the filmmaker Amelia Agamir Zayi. The first episode, filmed in Jackson Heights, Queens, the most linguistically diverse location on the planet, is now up on the Bette YouTube channel with many more episodes to share with you in the new year. Learning how to learn about the wines and languages of Italy has really opened up my world to drinks and dialects from local cultures all over the world. My goal is to share the kind of educational content that I would find helpful myself. I have learned so much this year. I've made so many new friends, I've tasted so many delicious drinks, and I met so many interesting people. If you find Motodiberi educational or encouraging, I really hope you go to patreon .com /motodiberi today and sign up to be a patron of the show for $5 a month. I really hope to be able to continue to do this work and share the show with you. Those contributions are what makes that possible. And I really appreciate it. I hope that the new year brings you delicious adventures. Thank you so much for listening. Wherever you go and whatever you like to drink, always remember to enjoy your life and to never stop learning. Follow Moro De Berry on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok for even more unique and encouraging drinks and language content. Music for the podcast was composed by Ercilia Prosperi and performed by the band O. You can purchase their recordings at oumusic .bandcamp .com. ( x
Music composed by Ersilia Prosperi for the band Ou: www.oumusic.bandcamp.com
Produced, recorded and edited by Rose Thomas Bannister
Audio assistance by Steve Silverstein
Video version by Giulia Àlvarez-Katz
