▷S4E9 Stefan Kisyov’s Glagolitic Novel
The Hagiographer is a historical fiction novel about the 9th century philosopher who invented the Glagolitic alphabet and his rogue biographer.
I was riding the New York City subway when I ran into my friend Vlada Tomova, who runs a Bulgarian woman's choir. She was with the Bulgarian writer Stefan Kisyov and his family, on the way back from an event at the Bulgarian embassy that celebrated the publication of his book The Hagiographer.
To give family a little taste of New York, Vlada was taking them to Caffe Reggio in the West Village. I ended up tagging along so that I could hear more about Stefan's historical fiction novel, set partly in Rome, about the person who created the Glagolitic alphabet, the first Slavonic alphabet.
Even though The Hagiographer is not yet available in English, I encouraged Stefan to sit down for an interview so that I could learn more about what drew him to write a book about the birth of an alphabet. He graciously agreed to give his first ever interview in English.
I also went shopping for at a mall in Brooklyn with Stefan and his daughter Maria so she could buy some Converse sneakers. Maria taught me a Bulgarian saying that will be available on Modo di Bere's social media pages.
Stefan Kisyov was born in 1963 in Stara Zagora, Bulgaria, where he completed his secondary education at the local French high school. He worked as an electrician, administrator in a hotel on the Black Sea coast, stage worker at the Stara Zagora Opera. He studied at the Plovdiv and Sofia Universities and the Sorbonne in Paris, and was a freelance journalist in several capital newspapers. He is the author of 50-60 stories, the novels "Jukebox", "Nothing Anywhere", "Don't Be a Somnambulist". For "The Executioner", in 2004, he received the grand prize of the "VIK" Foundation for Bulgarian Novel of the Year.
Order the English translation of Stefan’s book The Executioner directly from the author: kissiov@abv.bg
Stefan Kisyov's facebook page: facebook.com/stefan.kisyov
Stefan's publisher: erabooks.net
Hear some Bulgarian folk music from Vlada Tomova's Yasna Voices Women's Choir: instagram.com/yasnavoices
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SK: I think that maybe this this falcon was flying with him all his life. And even when I saw the the letter, he looks a little bit like bird who is flying and hunting. As the first letter of Glagolits, like his falcon. He put it in his alphabet. His favorite beloved falcon.
RTB: Welcome to Modo di Bere, the podcast about local drinks and local sayings. I'm your host, Rose Thomas Bannister.
RTB: I'm extremely pleased to be today with Stefan Kisov. Stefan is a Bulgarian writer who has published the author of 10 novels, short stories, plays, novels including Thy Name is a Woman, The Hagiographer, Don't Wake Up the Sleepwalker, The Novel of the Year, The Executioner, the current new release is what we're here to talk about today. So, we're going to be talking about the Hagiographer and alphabets, language, and many other things. Stefan, welcome. 10 novels, short stories, and plays. His novel, The Executioner, won an award in Bulgaria. It was the novel of the year. His latest book is called The Hagiographer. Yes. But first, since it's the podcast about local drinks and local sayings, I like to ask my guests for a local saying and a local drink. So do you have a local drink that you can tell me about from Bulgaria?
SK: Yes. Bulgaria is very famous with his wines and the famous rakias. They are very good I think and very famous.
RTB: What is rakia?
SK: It's a kind of distillation which is made from the from different fruits like a brandy. Yeah, this brandy of uh something sweet which is very strong. It's maybe sometimes it's very depend of the rakia of course but there are rakias which are maybe 60 or 70° strong which is very very much made from plums or all different kinds of fruit. Yeah. all kind of fruits even from wine. You can make rakia from wines and the rakias from wines are the best because are more fine and more tasty.
RTB: So let's talk about some local sayings from Bulgarian. If you're going to teach me just a little bit of Bulgarian, what would be a fun phrase for me to know in Bulgarian?
SK: I will pronounce it in Bulgarian. Който пее, зло не мисли. Which mean who is singing doesn't think about bad things.
RTB: Oh that's beautiful. That's beautiful. I like that one a lot. I think a lot of times I will ask people to explain the literal translation and then say when you would use this. But I think I think the meaning is apparent. That's a that's a really nice a nice
SK: It's not so philosophical but it's uh the first thing I remember in this moment.
RTB: I like it a lot. Thank you so much. Let's start talking about the Hagiographer. I understand a Hagiographer to be someone who writes the biographies of the saints. Is that the correct understanding of the the title?
SK: Yeah. Or biography of the people who will became saints. He's kind of kind of writer and investigator in the same time. This profession was created by the church in maybe the beginning of the the first years of the church maybe exist in even in our days because the church continue to exist in our days. So my hagiographer is the one of the principal heroes of the novel. He has to write a biography of one person from Byzantia, Constantine Filosof, Philosopher, who is the creator of the old Slavonic script. Glagolitz.
RTB: Glagolitz. Yeah, I looked this up. Glagolitic? is that—
SK: I don't know how you pronounce it in English.
RTB: So, if you're if you're if you're looking this up in English, the the Glagolitic alphabet.
SK: Yeah.
RTB: So, I understand it's a historical fiction that is set partly in Rome, but maybe we can start talking about the history a little bit and then you can tell us about the fiction part. So, who was Constantine the philosopher?
SK: He was the the man who created the Slavic written language.
RTB: The alphabet.
SK: Yeah. And who created the alphabet, the first alphabet. But before this person the Slavonic languages because they were different Slavonic languages who were were just languages without written literature without alphabet without anything. The only written languages in in Europe were Latin, Greek and Jewish language. But in 9th century Constantine Philosopher decided to create from this language written language and not only written but he decided to translate the Bible into Slavonic language. Not only to translate it but he decided to use not the Latin alphabet or Greek alphabet but created his own alphabet. And this alphabet is the Glagolitic script. And he not only did this which was very difficult in this time but he tried and he successfully did it to be he went to the pope in this time and tried to to convince him. Yeah. To to declare that the alphabet Bulgarian uh this old Glagolits script and language Slavonic language are official language. This time and the church permitted to translate and to to translate the Bible in this language and to use it in church. And he did it alone. All these things. In the 9th century.
RTB: I have to say it really sparks my imagination to think of sitting down and inventing the alphabet I think when maybe when we are little little children we imagine that languages were created in this way like all at once by one person or a group of people around the table and then of course you learn that that's not how languages or alphabets are invented. So I think this must have been an extraordinary person.
SK: Yeah. And he uh I wanted to tell something else about Constantine that he not only defended the right of the Slavonic people to to pray in their own language but he he did that all the people in the world has a right to pray in their own mother language and this was really revolutionary thing in 9th century. The church was in this time very very conservative organization. It it was like miracle that the church agree and this and permitted Constantine Philosopher to use Slavonic language in the churches and to use after that and to use officially the the Bulgaria like a country to use this language like official language and from this language after that which is very important, the language Slavonic—Bulgarian Slavonic people, who uses this language in Bulgaria, created the first literature in not only translated the the church but translated a lot of literature pieces in in old Slavonic, old Bulgarian Slavonic. After that they gave this alphabet and this translated books to the Russian and now and Russia use this alphabet and Serbia and I don't know how exactly how many people but a lot a lot of people in the world now use this this language and this alphabet.
RTB: What did it look like?
SK: Glagolits was a very very beautiful alphabet. She was made from three geometrical figures from the circle triangle and and the cross. Yeah. And all in all the letters there were symbols of this three elements. Oh, not only that but all the books had different signification. Like show it what will happen even in in the future they were caught for different numbers. It's for very very complicated alphabet. It was too very difficult to to be used in this time. That's why when the alphabet became official alphabet and the language was official language in Slavonic language became official in Bulgaria in this time, everybody decided that it is very difficult to be used it from for every from everybody because it was not easy it's it is like heiroglyphs—
RTB: Like hieroglyphs.
SK: Kind of hieroglyphs, yeah. Very complicated. All the books all the letters and uh they changed it and made did the new alphabet who is who was uh named Azbuka who came from Glagoitsa. The Azbuka that mean alphabet Bulgarian alphabet which is more simple and uh only six letters from Glagolitsa came in the Bulgarian alphabet and the other one were taken from Greek alphabet and from Latin alphabet. And so they made some alphabet which more easy and more comfortable for everybody.
RTB: But this was the first idea of of an alphabet of a written language in these tongues.
SK: The idea! That's the the big question was big question for me in my novel because when I was learned and studied a lot of things about Constantine and I was writing the novel I was wondering really why he decided to make all these things what he want to say with this alphabet or with Glagolitsa because there are a lot of symbols in this alphabet especially the first and f finally I noticed that the first letter of Glagolitsa I don't know how to explain it here but which is like a cross with other a cross in a circle, but if you look it well you you it looks like a person, like man. I mean that's this alphabet finally and everybody think that this man is Jesus Christ. Everybody can imagine something different that this is just a man! This is just a simple man and this is the alphabet for everybody for man, which is very revolutionary in this time in 9th century to make alphabet which is um which created the the man in the first place, which is before God and before the religion. I mean like a humanist like humanist in 14th centuries in Renaissance six centuries later started to do it but Constantine did it in 9th century.
RTB: So this hieroglyph that resembled a person what was the meaning of that letter?
SK: That mean "me," "person". That mean in, yes "I". Because the first letter in Bulgarian Azbuka in alphabet is I, but this is the same pronunciation for the for the person so this is another proof that it's not just look like person but it's the real intention of Constantine to make something like this to to pro to to show to the the people that the importance of the man.
RTB: That was pretty interesting.
SK: Yeah. These circles and crosses and triangles. Did those have sacred symbolic meanings as well?
SK: Yes, maybe they have a lot of meanings and secrets. But because there are a lot of theories what every letter of this alphabet mean? Because six centuries before Leonardo, Constantine Filosof was the maybe one of the most uh intelligent and clever people of this time of his time. He knew maybe 10 or 15 languages. He was very good in philosophies in mathematics in he created alphabet. He created new language. He was the father of the Slavonic language because all these languages in fact are not Slavonic language or other languages but they are Constantine languages. He made this this language. If Constantine were not were not was not created this alphabet and these phonemes, nobody knows what could happen with all these languages with all these people who spoke this language because language language change and if some language hasn't, doesn't have literature and he is not written, language disappear. Only the literature and alphabet and schools made from one language because we have examples that a lot of language from the beginning of the human history disappeared. The language who has not who haven't hasn't had not alphabets and literature didn't yeah they just disappear.
RTB: Like a dream.
SK: Yeah there are a lot of examples.
RTB: So tell me a little bit about the novel the story that happens we talked about the history a little bit. So what happens in in your book The Hagiographer?
SK: The story is about this hagiographer who is very complicated person he has dark history. He was criminal and went in the jail, was come down to that but survived this. He loves money. He loves beautiful women. He's just a kind of adventurer. But in the same time, he loves God and he wanted to serve to to God in this time because he wanted to became a good man and to prove himself that he is good person. But one day in his home arrived some people, some men who who ask him to go to one very famous and very rich Rome princess who is who want to see him and to talk with him and give him some money for the time that he will lose. He first doesn't agree but when when he see the money he agree and go with him mean to to talk with this princess. This princess, princess Monti, wants from him to that he write a biography of Constantine Philosopher. Explain about him that he came 20 years ago in Rome that he created one new alphabet Glagolits script and ask him to write the biography of this saint. Our person first doesn't agree say I'm not too interested to write somebody who is dead so long ago and so and he leave the princess but finally in the street he decide to come back and to take the the job and so that's the beginning of the novel and after that he has a lot of adventures he have meetings with different people who knew Constantine Philosopher to speak with Bulgarian king with in Constantinople to speak with people who knew Constantine Philosopher when he was young and he was living there and he has a lot of adventures and finally he discovered that a lot of things that I don't know want to explain now to your listeners because I have to take the secret the novel to be more interesting for them one day if they decide to read it.
RTB: The cover design is very beautiful and there's a picture of a falcon on the front. I'm wondering where the falcon comes from in the story.
SK: Yeah, the falcon is not—very special—has very special place in this story. First because when Constantine was very young, thus my, the hagiographer, he had a very he was in a rich family, Byzantian family, lived in this family. And he like the fashion of this time was that all the children the boys has falcons to go to for animals in the forest to hunt. Yeah. With these falcons. This was the fashion. This was very modern to to to have a falcon. And he has one very very beautiful falcon, very expensive. But when they he was once in the forest with this falcon, he lose it. The falcon fly away and he never saw him again. And Constantine was very very sad about this. He was absolutely disappeared. He he started to he stopped to to eat to to drink water and nearly one week he was nearly dead from this case. He he absolutely was in shock after this lose of this falcon and this lo loss changed his life finally because after that he he he just he became different person. He understand that many of the things in this world are not like he wants day to be and decided to make something very important very useful in his life and after that he decided to create this alphabet and to make from Slavic language, written language. And so that's is this is the the importance and I think that maybe this this falcon was flying with him all his life and even when I saw the the letter he looks a little bit like bird who is flying and hunting as the first letter of Glagolits, like his falcon, he put it in his alphabet his favorite beloved falcon.
RTB: It's kind of like, this may not have been his intention, but as you were saying before about languages fading away, he really kept his own mother tongue from disappearing. He wrote it down. He was able to make it permanent.
SK: But nobody could be sure why he did it. That's why in my novel I didn't tell readers one theory. I was making make I was making like mix of theories and say to the reader that all of these theories are possible, in fact, and it's to reader to decide which is the real answer of the question why.
RTB: Like a bit of a mystery.
SK: Yeah. I I mean this novel is not so mystery novel novel. It's more philosophical novel than than mystery novel. Mystery here is not criminal mystery, or miracle mystery, but uh philosophical mystery. Is the philosophical question first why why we people should have many language and why we should use different languages because if we have if imagine if everybody in the world use just one language it will be much more easy for everybody. Everybody could feel everywhere like home. It is in the same time good and in the same time bad that it's very complicated question: are good all these languages or they are not so good? And they were also in the same time different language made created problems between people between countries there was were a lot of wars because of the languages so the question is philosophical a little bit, is that good or not good, that to make new alphabet ,to make new language. That's why, I mean, the writer has not to be to give answers he just have to help reader to to has his own answer for the problems and for everything and to to to start himself to to study and to try to to think not to take already intellectual food.
RTB: Was there a book for you that made you start to ask more questions when you were young?
SK: Yeah, a lot of books when I was young, when I was 16 or something like this, my favorite books were like uh Siddhartha of Herman Hesse, Dostoevsky, Crime and Punishment and I was reading Salinger, Catcher in the Rye. I I like it a lot when I was this in the age. I still like it, of course. I was reading a lot of American literature. I mean Hemingway, the Old man and the Sea. Yeah, something like this. All kind of this literature. I like it in this time to read and I still to when I was writing The Hagiographer and not only Hagiographer, Executioner, and all my books, I'm trying to not to give always question answers but to make something like new person new something that is alive and who will live in the memories and imagination of the people who is reading and to to feel the pleasure of this reading of course.
RTB: Did you always want to be a writer?
SK: Yeah. All my life I I maybe not always but when I was maybe 12 I decided to to write to became when I was reading one book from Jack London, Martin Eden. I decided to to be like him to because in this book it was written exactly how what you have to do to become a writer. Martin Eden was one very normal guy without big education who decided to became a writer and he started to study to write to make exercises finally he became famous. I like this example very much and decided in this age. No, but I really like it all the time. I like it to write and to to read.
RTB: In what time period does the novel take place?
SK: Hagiographer, in two times. The first the beginning is in our our days. One person in Czech Republic goes in one very old monastery and find there some very old script in old Slavonic or old Bulgarian language. And he make pictures of this script. And after that he sent the pictures of the script to one good friend who is living in Bulgarian, Bulgarian academia of science who know Old Slavonic and ask him to translate the script and sometime later he received the translation. I start to to read it. He start to make uh something like a novel of this and the novel in fact the novel is this the script who was translated from the old Bulgarian Slavonic language. That's the beginning the new of our days and after that the action goes in 9th century the story starts in 9th century and finish 9th century.
RTB: What was the Hagiographer's name?
SK: Atanasi.
RTB: Atanasi?
SK: Atanasi. He—nobody knows nationality but he's living in Rome that's all we know about him. He know more about him character his life but not he has no in fact he has not nationality and all my heroes had not all of them but most of them has not nationality because in this time nationalities were not created in Europe in this time everything was mixed there were a lot of different countries they change but the notion nationality does didn't exist in this time everybody spoke about faith who is Christian who is Muslim who is Jewish nationality didn't mean nothing in this time
RTB: So let's talk a little bit about your novel The Executioner which is more widely available in translation. What was that story about?
SK: That story's about the life of one person. It's a kind of a little bit fantasy story. One person who became a killer for the country in his communist country in one communist jail. He started to kill the people for the country. He was executioner. But in the same time we have we have all his life. I mean, for me it was interesting to make something somebody executioner but to show him exactly what make him executioner and what could be the life of one man if he work or not work but he became executioner and I made somebody. It's kind of absurd and black humor novel because in during this communism because the the time of the book, Executioner in time of the communism, the life of the people was very different than now. This is one man his father was from other planet he came here because his plane was broken and he falled in earth and made family here and he was the father my principal hero. But they were very, they had very miserable life in Bulgaria. They were very poor. And the father started to work in one circus. The the childhood of the my personage was in the circus. His father was a clown and even he and the little boy helped his father sometimes in to make jokes public. And they were very famous in this time in Bulgaria and European countries when they make visit with the circus. But all this time because the action of the book became with the moment that when my boy, my hero was little boy, his father told him his story that he came from other planet. And this planet was very beautiful. There were very special things in this planet, very modern. Everybody was very lucky things like that. And from this age my hero started to dream about this planet. And all this time when he was poor and unhappy, he had the intention to go in this planet. But he did not know how to go on this planet. He tried everything but he first he started to go in one school to study for pilot to became pilot because he decided that in this time there was first cosmonaut. One day maybe he will became cosmonaut and go to his planet. But when he was in the school this unhappy thing happened that his captain, his boss in the in the army, in the school, military school, and he was put in the jail and was sentenced to death. But they told me that we don't kill you if you became executioner, but if you don't became you will be killed. So he he had no choice and he chose to live and to become executioner. I will tell maybe all the story! [laughs] But after that he has a lot of adventures in the jail and in the this and finally he he became cosmonaut finally.
RTB: Aw.
SK: They put him in this Russian Soviet in I forget now in what country in Kyrgyzstan, or the Russian cosmonaut city. And there he made a lot of adventures too. He put he met him very famous women cosmonaut make a little bit romance with them and one day he went to the cosmos with his Russian spaceship but like everybody knows Russian spaceships are not so perfect.
He had some some technical problems and everything started to be very bad and he will he will be dying maybe. But then happened this miracle and when he saw in the mirror mirror he saw one extraterrestrial ship that was was from one planet the planet of his father. And they help with him of course to make reparation of his spaceship and even they told me if he wants he could go with them in planet of his father. He decided to go with them. But finally when he saw the the planet, he was very sad about his girlfriend who is and decided to stay. And that's the a little bit like this this novel.
RTB: It sounds fantastic.
SK: Very humor romantic and a little bit horror.
RTB: That sounds wonderful. I'm gonna read it. I will let our listeners know that while we wait for the translation of Stefan Kisov's new novel, The Hagiographer, into hopefully many languages, go ahead and look for this novel, The Executioner. Go to your local book seller. Go to your library and say, "Help me find this book. It is available in English, Serbian, German, and Czech, as well as the original Bulgarian." And thank you so much for for speaking with me today. Do you have any any further thoughts about language or writing or anything else that you'd like to share?
SK: Thank you very much too. I appreciate your invitation very much.
RTB: Thank you very much for speaking with me today. To all of our listeners, thank you so much for for listening to the show. And remember, wherever you go and whatever you drink, always remember to enjoy your life and never stop learning.
Support us on Patreon. Grab the newsletter at mododibere.com and subscribe to the YouTube channel at Modo di Bere to watch the travel show Modo di Bere TV. Music for the show was composed by Ersilia Prosperi for the band Ou. Purchase their music at the link in the notes.
Music composed by Ersilia Prosperi for the band Ou: www.oumusic.bandcamp.com
Produced and recorded by Rose Thomas Bannister
Audio and video edited by Giulia Àlvarez-Katz
Audio assistance by Steve Silverstein
