▷S4E8 Serena Jost and the Mountains

English

Oct 31

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Visionary cellist and composer Serena Jost grew up between Switzerland and Michigan, speaking the Swiss German language with her family and climbing up on the roof with a homemade radio antennae to take in the sounds of languages she didn't know. Serena writes lyrics that are poetic rather than narrative, takes inspiration from literature, and composes some songs in wordless or invented tongues.

Serena describes the mind-opening, terrifying shapes of the Swiss Alps and their effect on human psychology. She and Rose Thomas discuss different modes of language acquisition, from need-based to perfectionistic to every-day. They also discuss the seemingly divine nature of composition, discuss a couple of poems, and play several songs from Serena's three albums, A Bird Will Sing, Up to the Sky, and Closer than Far, as well as two unreleased recordings.

Purchase Serena's recordings—and hire her for remote cello lessons!—at her website:

serenajost.com

You can purchase Rose Thomas Bannister's new record at rosethomasbannister.bandcamp.com.

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SJ: The mountains are magnificent and they're incredibly beautiful and inviting and rich and full of life and terrifying and dark and brutal and everything. You know, they give and they take, right? At least in Switzerland, they did—historically a lot of different things would happen. But the mountains are like an orientation. When you have those shapes and you live in those shapes, it's really profound, you know.
RTB: Welcome to Modo di Bere, the podcast about local drinks and local sayings. I'm your host, Rose Thomas Bannister.
Today's musical guest is Serena Jost. I really love to talk with musicians and composers who do interesting things with the language or with interesting languages. So Serena Jost is a singer, cellist, and composer. Stereo Ember magazine called her the Elizabeth Barrett Browning of Avant Classical Folk. Serena is a longtime New Yorker who grew up between the Midwest and Switzerland. She has walked along the Great Lakes, over mountain passes, and loves to take to the streets of New York City. Serena has performed in Europe and the UK and throughout the US and Canada. She has been on stage at seminal New York City venues such as Joe's Pub, Rockwood Music Hall, The Owl, Barbes, The Swiss Consulate, The Living Room, Pete's Candy Store, Tonic, and The Kitchen. Together with composer cellist Matthew Robinson, she led a 50 cello performance on Governor's Island, and she was an original member of the band Rasputina. Serena, welcome.
I've popped out to my Brooklyn fire escape to tell you about this month's sponsor, Culture Without Borders Language Collective, who believe that the best way to learn language is through friendship. I'm going to be doing a collaborative event with Culture Without Borders, and I'm going to tell you a little more about it later in the episode.
Before we start the interview, I want to let you know that Modo di Bere exists thanks to listeners like you. Your support makes it possible for us to interview wine makers, artisans, and everyday people who keep local culture alive. Please take a moment now to visit patreon.com/mododibere. This fascinating interview will be here when you get back.
Serena, I've always wanted to talk more with you about growing up in this multilingual place, which is Switzerland, but I went ahead and put our interview on a calendar when you mentioned that you have some music in a made-up language.
SJ: Yeah. So, well, um, just quickly, my family is from Switzerland and I grew up between Switzerland and Michigan and all of my relatives were in Switzerland and in our Midwestern college town household, we spoke Swiss German dialect and had a lot of the cultural things, you know, from Swiss culture. I do have a song with a made-up language because to me I guess that there's like something like pre- language, you know, which is the sounds that mean things that are closest to the story you're telling. And in some ways by the time you have words for something, you're already falling short of what you were trying to say. So yeah, so I do have a made-up language because I feel like it's maybe the purest form of expression.
RTB: That is so interesting. Let's play a little bit of that song now.
[Austere cello music with emphatic
vocals in a made-up language]
RTB: Wow. So, what is the story there?
SJ: Well, it's more a story about an encounter and it starts with an exploration that there's there's a misunderstanding and the person—or me!—the person I'm channeling asserts themselves and sort of finds their power. And so it's like it's both kind of luring you in and it's like inviting you in and at the same time it's like if you you know busted out of a shirt or something, something like that.
RTB: And there's also a second part to the song that's kind of interesting. We're going to play the second part now. But do you want to talk to me about how the song's in two parts?
SJ: Yeah, the song's in two parts. So the first part is the language and then it goes into a very dynamic part called it's it's still jump the song jump and it's about total defiance like and and daring someone to try to stop me and you know you'll hear in the lyrics what that is. So I'm just I'm saying you can try but I'm going to have fun doing whatever I want to do. Oh I love that.
[Upbeat music with drums and quirky synth sounds, vocals in English]
RTB: Oh, I love that.
SJ: Thank you.
RTB: Can you talk about your record?
SJ: Yeah. Okay. So, I have three albums and I'm making another one right now and that is from Closer than Far which I made with the producer Brad Albetta who's really amazing and the band obviously figured largely in that piece, and then after that I made an album with Anton Fier, the extraordinary producer Anton Fier, called A Bird Will Sing. And that was also with my band. So, the band shifted a little bit but mostly I've had the same people all along. Julian Maile is the person you hear on guitar and Rob Jost plays bass and Robert DiPietro plays drums. I made an album, I had, like, it was great working with Anton, but it was like an architectural experience you know where it was like this person with a super structure sense came in and produced something and it was amazing to work with him but then the pendulum swang and I wanted to do something totally personal live so I did a solo cello and voice recording in St. Peter's church which was built in 1848 in Chelsea and I did a, you know, it was me and eight microphones, and Adam Gold recorded that. And so it was a series of songs and also sort of improvisations that happened in the space and that was you know just a totally different very raw whatever I got we kept type of thing. Now we're making a new album back to the band but a little bit more of that live feeling like I want to see what happens and let it stand.
RTB: That sounds amazing. And that recording, all of those recording experiences sound incredible in in different ways. So, you also sent me another song that you described as wordless, which is "It's a Delight." I believe that's from the church album.
SJ: Yeah, it's called Up to the Sky.
RTB: Up to the sky. So, I was curious how you differentiate wordless from the made-up language because you use two different ways to describe that.
SJ: Yeah. So, um, the made-up language is something that I'm telling something like I have something specific that I'm saying. By way of background, I grew up without a television and you know with the Swiss household in the Midwest, but we did have a shortwave radio which I would take to the roof and I would fashion an antenna out and listen to the radio on the roof and I listen I love listening to languages that I didn't understand like for hours. So I feel like I have an affinity to sound and it's like almost if you listen long enough long enough to something you don't understand you'll start to understand it. And the wordless song just to answer your question about the, Up to the Sky, like, "It's a Delight," that's, I feel like it's like something that's...I feel like I'm just a vessel and that the sounds are coming through me, you know, I start something and I I don't know what it is I have no idea and it's sort of like I'm just the there to receive it so there's a difference.
RTB: It's a little more ecstatic maybe.
SJ: Yes. Yeah.
RTB: So let's let's play "It's a Delight."
[Soaring cello music with "worldless" vocals]
RTB: I really love the way that you captured the sound in that building, the acoustics of a certain space. It's a type of local culture that I think we don't really consider!
SJ: Yeah. And you know, it was like a very incredible thing to do in that space because it's been around for such a long time and I felt like there were these sort of balconies and I felt I felt like the presence of people over time in that space, you know, so that was really, you know, was I felt just like it was an honor to record there.
RTB: That's a beautiful story and it's a really beautiful song. I want to hear more about what it was like for you being connected to more than one homeland and and I'm thinking about there's another song that I want to play next which is "Blue Flowers," and I noticed there's a line in there that says "pick a country." I don't know if that has anything to do with your upbringing but I just want to hear a little more about your experience of being in two places and growing up and how language factored into that and anything you want to tell us about that song.
SJ: You know, it's really interesting to grow up and with an awareness of that you belong to two places. Maybe some people have even more places, but in some ways you have like access you your consciousness about you don't take for granted where you live and in some ways you have this special gift and you have the gift of learning a language just because you're around it, you know, that's an amazing thing. And in Switzerland, people speak multiple languages. Most people speak multiple languages.
RTB: What are some of the main languages that you see in Switzerland?
SJ: Well, you have four basically. So, you have Swiss German, which is the dialect that I speak. And then there's French and Italian, and then there's a language called Romansh, which is 11% I believe of the country speaks it. It's an old Latin dialect, and it's the most incredible sounding language. So, and a lot of people because it's a small country, it's close, everything's close, so you cross into other languages with frequency. So many people have a pretty good handle on two to three plus English language often. So and I because I was had my schooling in the United States I didn't have that advantage but I have some French and I have German and then my Swiss German and then I had I have high German also which is you know the Schriftdeutsch which is like what they would speak in Germany.
RTB: Could you tell me a little more about the difference between Swiss German dialect? Yeah, I mean Germany has dialects too, but the Schriftdeutsch is sort of the written proper German and it's, you know, it's it's a language that it's like has Swiss German has its own grammar actually. So, it's a different it's a very different than the high German for me. When I speak high German, I sort of feel like I'm trying to speak British English like it's kind of like like it's in my stuck in my mouth somewhere, you know? But Swiss German is a language of my heart. So, there are things that I can say in Swiss German that I cannot say in English. There's not a translation really, you know.
RTB: Give me an example.
[Speaking Swiss German]
These are things like "I like this. It pleased me," [speaking Swiss German]
You know, it's just like, it's different, like, if I said, today,
"Today is Wednesday," in high German,
[speaks high German]
and in dialect we say [speaks Swiss German]
So it's different, right? And I think the language of caring also from my parents was Swiss German and there I mean there are there's obviously so much music Swiss German dialect there lots of famous artists. I guess for me like it's both an advantage of of having these two places and then in some ways you never belong. You you don't you're not you don't fit in. Like when I would go to...here, I would feel really like incredibly European, like you know rustic doing all these things, not doing American cultural things. And then when I would go to Switzerland my relatives say would say "Du bisch sehr amerikanisch worde," which means, you've become so American. And I would be like, well, I'm just both. And then the solve was to move to New York City, where whoever you are is embraced. I mean it really doesn't matter. People don't, people, everyone is from somewhere, right? And there's such an just an incredible group of people here, so whatever your configuration here, it's like, okay, great. I think I appreciate the being raised by European Swiss parents and kind of having access to that culture it's a different way a little bit of being and then on the American side I like you know being able to like speak my mind and be direct and brash a little forward that's like more American. [laughs]
RTB: I love how you describe the personalities of of the languages.
SJ: Yes, it's it's in there. Actually, in my family, we had a German friend and when you know different family friends and one guy would come over and when he and my mother would speak German, they would complain and when they spoke English, they would have like this more optimism.
[RTB laughs]
It's just like in the culture, you know, we say, [Swiss German] it's in the culture.
(Sponsor message) I popped out to my Brooklyn fire escape to let you know about a collaborative event between Culture Without Borders Language Collective and Modo di Bere. The event is on November 16th, 2025, and it's a bilingual wine tasting where English and Spanish learners can practice their languages and learn about wine while meeting some nice new people. Please go to cwbcollective.com and sign up for their email list to find out about this and other events for language learners everywhere.
(RTB) So I really like to talk to people about idioms and sayings. Are there any like Swiss German proverbs or like something your mom used to say that kind of come to mind? I guess my mother is like a very positive person. You you might say things like you know like positive like little little witticism [Swiss German] "That's perfect." you know it's, I mean Germans say it's [German] but we say [Swiss German]. You know like, "I loved it." Everyone always talks about the "chuchichästli" when they're making—some people mock Swiss German because it has we have a lot of [sound effect] and a lot of sounds you know so the Germans always talk about this expression with the "chuchichästli" which is like it's not really a summary of the language there's nice things like for example if you say Good night. ou say "schlaf schön," and schlaf schön, you know, it's "Sleep well." and it's it's just a nice sometimes the sounds are warm.
RTB: They're kind of sonorous compared to the German that I've heard.
SJ: Absolutely. Yes. And it's it's more sing-songy and there are within Switzerland lots of little dialects like even though I grew up, you know, with Swiss parents in Michigan, people can tell which region my parents are from, which region my family's from.
RTB: So which region is that?
SJ: From Canton Grabunda which is like in the southeastern part. It's beautiful there. My mother's from Davos and my father's from Klosters. Those are kind of well-known ski villages. And then of course the World Economic Forum is at in Davos now. So I grew up you know in the mountains and just pick whatever picking flowers and drinking like in the, you can go above. You can go to this place called Schllein and you still you drink from the stream you know. It's it's pretty great. Now, of course, Switzerland is also a modern place, so there's, you know, whatever. There's cities, there's all kinds of people, you know, but the version I got was a little bit more of the older generation. Uh, my partner, the first time he's in Switzerland with me, we're up in this mountain side and my grandmother was there and she came with she came, he's like, "Oh my gosh, is she going to be okay? She has an axe." And I was like, "Yes, she's gonna, you know, use her axe." Like so there that was for a New York Jew like a surprising image and so so that was good.
RTB: There's something I I notice about if you're having an immigrant experience where you are then your version of the language that you learn is from a different generation because you're not spending as much time with contemporaries your own age. So, do you find now if you talk with someone your age from Swiss German, are you kind of old-fashioned?
SJ: Absolutely. I mean, it's so great that you're saying that because it's true. You you're almost like frozen in time a little bit. And so when I go to Switzerland now and I'm hanging out with younger cousins or whatever, I feel like, oh, that's how you say that, you know, like that's how you say it and sound cool like, you know, or the fast like those witty. It's just also maybe cultural has kind of gotten a little more less formal across the board. So, you know, like people throw things out there. So, I definitely every time I'm in Switzerland, I feel like, oh my gosh, I I'm needing to update and I'm trying to grab whatever I can.
RTB: You still have like very strong grasp of your language. It didn't get rusty for you?
SJ: Not so much. I speak Swiss German with my mother exclusively. Like, we only speak Swiss German. And I had an experience, you know, my brothers and I, we we all spoke at home, but I guess I had an experience where I had an accident when I was 15 and I was in Europe and I ended up in the hospital in Switzerland and I had to deal. So I learned to really use my language in a way that I hadn't before
RTB: Because it was your only option.
SJ: Yeah, it was my only option and you know, silver lining as they say. So then and also I've had I have Swiss friends in New York. Um and then I did some work with the consulate. So it just you know am I as totally on point in Swiss German as I can be in English? Probably not. But am I am I able to express emotion and you know a feeling and connectedness? Yeah, absolutely.
SJ And I think I would love it if people would replace what you just said for their definition of fluency. Yeah. Especially Americans. I feel like there's two things that we do. We really assume that if you didn't learn something when you were really young that it's too late for you to learn language. And then we also just do this constant, oh well, I'm not fluent. And I it occurs to me when I'm speaking to people who have a little bit of a low confidence American language learning thing that I notice a lot. I started to wonder what is that definition of fluent? At which point you will have arrived and are you actually putting it up there with a native speaker? Yeah. And will you just continue to apologize until you sound like a native speaker? Because then you're going to apologize forever because you can't redo your life and become a native speaker.
SJ: Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. And also like the way anybody learns anything is by starting with something and then like that's the first part and then you become dissatisfied with it and you go to the next thing or you you try things and stumbling is part of every child's language learning, you know? So why not for an adult? And like I think what you're saying is also great like what is the attainment of language because you know how even if you don't speak a language like I feel like a fake languages like if I'm traveling like if I know what I'm trying to communicate I find a way to get there. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think it's wonderful. Also language is empathy you know. So if you speak with someone or you try to speak their language that's a really special thing that you're doing. It's empathetic and it's like it's kind of like peacemaking or something you know.
RTB: Yeah. You know, I got really shy about my Spanish when I started learning Italian because they got kind of mixed up in my head and sometimes I'd say "di" instead of "de" and, as if that matters. You know, I had an experience where I had someone translate my questions for me for a Spanish podcast interview. It was actually my stepson. He did a terrific job, but there was this distance of having someone translate my questions. And it would have been so much better. Yeah. If I had just gone ahead with my Spanish, which is actually fine. You know, I'm actually gonna be launching a Spanish podcast soon. I learned Spanish when I was younger. So, the Italian was really fresh and hot, but the Spanish was a little more embodied. I have different connection to them, but the fascinating thing that happened was now I speak Spanish in an Italian accent, and people think I'm Italian, which is but that's part of my story, you know. That's wonderful. Yeah. And and I I just realized that when I'm speaking with someone, a Spanish speaker, an Italian speaker, and I throw a word in there, I'll I'll notice sometimes and apologize. Yeah. And they'll be like, "I understood to you."
SJ: Right. Exactly. Exactly. That's so lovely, right?
RTB: Yeah.
SJ: And also, yeah, that it's like it's always in motion, right? And you it's there's there's no like perfect moment, you know? There's just communicating.
RTB: At the end of our lives, we get aphasia and different things.
SJ: Exactly.
RTB: And going back to babies and your experience of being in the hospital and having to use your language cuz no one around was speaking English. That's how it is for babies, too. They need to communicate in order to survive and say, "I need something. I, you know, I'm in pain. I'm hungry. I'm whatever." You know, basic needs. So, the motivation is incredible. And so when we're sitting here comparing ourselves to babies, it's like, well, do you really want to be in the kind of survival situation that's going to make you focus that much on your new language or do you rather just kind of struggle along slowly to get better over time, you know?
SJ: And there's energy, too, you know, like when you're talking to someone and you're you don't have a common language or one of you isn't as agile in it, there's, you know, eye contact and body language, really universal things that kind of carry you through, right?

RTB: It's marvelous. And there's so much more about it than just getting the words perfect. And and and that's why I really do think that it goes together to talk about language and to talk about wine at least from you know my perspective as an American noticing that in both fields it can feel kind of mysterious or the attainment levels seems really high or it seems like this mysteriously difficult skill that is so impressive that people can do whereas you could be in another paradigm and it's just like yeah this is this is a part of life or if you're in Switzerland and you're speaking four or five languages just to you know go to another town or to talk to your brother-in-law or whatever, you know, like it's it's can be also very everyday.
SJ: Well, I do feel like, you know, we tend to think of things as these sort of, well, this is the ultimate version of what I'm going to do and the ultimate thing when I have time, I'm going to do this thing or the ultimate dream. Those little things are just little bricks, you know, that you just like start with one and then you have the next one and then maybe you're getting somewhere, you know? Yeah. Right. It's it's just an awakening, you know, like and then like you're saying, it's so generous to communicate with people whether wine or language. It's like there's generosity.
RTB: So, let's listen to some more music. I wanted to play the song "Blue Flowers" and that just that line popped out to me of choosing a country. So, was there anything else you'd like to tell us about that song?
SJ: Yeah, that song is like in some ways a very serious song. Um, and I guess you could start with the title. The blue flowers are, you know, you don't often see blue flowers. And it's sort of about if you have an awareness of yourself and you lose your sense of identity and what the structure and everything that held you is no longer true. What happens next? What happens when you have a total shift from what you what how you know yourself? Most people, all of us feel like that those can be kind of devastating moments. But in the chorus it goes to the place of freedom and you know the country um and you can hear you know talking it's a bit defiant and it's also like saying I'm ready for this. Whatever, come tidal wave, here I am I'm going to I'm going to you know just take this there is seriousness and joy in that song.
[Slow singing over plucked cello strings]
RTB: Yeah, that is a beautiful song. What album is that one from?
SJ: That's from A bird will sing, you know, which and Anton had a big part in shaping and bringing those songs out in a way that I hadn't imagined. That was really special. And that's Rob Jost there on the bass who is not related to me but has the same last name.
RTB: Oh, that's so funny.
SJ: Yeah. Yeah. He's like he's same spelling. So we sometimes do a duo thing called Jost and Jost.
RTB: Oh, and he says "joast." Oh, that's so funny. Where is that from that? It's "joast" instead of "yoast?"
SJ: think he's German Jewish background. I don't know. It's just kind of a random thing. Everyone thinks that either we're married or siblings and we kind of, you know, play into that, but but we're not.
RTB: Did you know that I also have a travel show? Modo di Bere TV is a series of regional documentaries I produce with the filmmaker Emilia Aghamirazai. Subscribe to the YouTube channel at Modo di Bere to follow my adventures as I taste wine with farmers who rescue forgotten grapes, play dominoes with the last speakers of a rare dialect and make friends with fishermen who still go out in wooden boats. All that and more is coming to youtube.com/m o d o d i b e r e. Go subscribe now.
RTB: As listeners of this show might know, I'm a singer songwriter myself, which is definitely part of why I like know so many cool musicians such as yourself. I feel like you and I have both been described as literary songwriters. Maybe because something about our lyric style or the fact that we also draw from literature and artwork or or maybe both. And I love this comparison from the press to Elizabeth Barrett Brown. [sic] Can you remind our listeners who she was?
SJ: Elizabeth Barrett Browning was a poet. Um, and she, you know, um, she was, I think she was sort of forward for her time. She was probably in that Norton anthology that you read like when you were in school. And it was great that that reviewer made a comparison because, you know, I appreciate that. Intentionally I write sort of in a poetic way. I mean, sometimes write with a straight narrative, but sometimes straight narrative is not that interesting to me. So, I like the configuration of words. I think that's what he was relating to, you know, using words as shapes or creating patterns or rhythms within words. So, I think he he, you know, I really appreciated his writing.
RTB: So, I I'm pretty sure that this is she was born in the early 1800s, so I'm pretty sure this is in the the public domain. So, just to give you a little a little reference, the sonnet [reads]: How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.
SJ: Yes.
RTB: I love thee to the depth and breadth and height my soul can reach when feeling out of sight for the ends of being and ideal grace. So that is that you might have heard that also referenced even if you haven't heard the poem. So I want to play two different songs that I think can give that example of why you're getting called a literary songwriter. And I think one would be maybe just the more poetic style and then the other one more of a lit more of a literary reference. So, I was thinking of the song Great Conclusions. There's just this kind of list of objects that I found to be really poetic. And this is from A Bird Will Sing as as was the last song. So.
[Slide guitar and driving drums, clean vocals]
RTB: Delicious.
SJ: Thank you. Thank you. I have to tell you who's playing, too. So that's Rob Jost on the bass and Julian Maile on that slicing guitar and Robert DiPietro is playing drums and then Thomas Bartlett who's goes by Doveman is on the keys there.
RTB: So we heard those last two songs that we heard were both from the album A Bird will Sing which had that kind of beautiful lush production. We got a chance to really hear the range cuz we also heard the song in the church recorded album which is Up to the Sky and then the couple of songs that we started with were from Closer than Far. You also shared with me a couple of works in progress which I feel really lucky to hear and and to share with our our listeners and they're beautiful. So speaking of literary references, there was a song called Euphoria and you said that it was a a Kurt Vonnegut reference. Yeah. So I'm involved in this thing called the Bushwick Book Club which is wonderful. It's run by Susan Huang who's just delightful and she invites artists to come. We all read the same book and then everyone comes up with a song. So there's all these totally varied different amazing songs and Kurt Vonnegut was one of the authors in the Monkey House. I read a short story there called The Euphio Question and it's about this device that transmits a signal from outer space to humans below which makes them feel completely blissful. And the story goes through sort of what happens to people like and how they come together and then also how they buy for they want to own it just like humans want to possess good things and monetize them. So anyway so my song I called it Euphoria and it's based on that also that just based on that you know piece of writing.
RTB: I think that illusion of possession is probably our biggest problem.
SJ: Yeah. Well, it's also it's the mirage. Once you have something and you feel like you possess it, whether it's like superiority to another person or whatever you think that you've got in the bag, come on. Like we know actually it's a moving thing and it's always, you know, so I feel like we want to secure ourselves by possessing, right? Maybe another person or things, objects. We've constructed that and and it's like this, you know, self-importance. Um and so it's really interesting that we are kind of like you say always relearning and maybe not always getting that lesson. Quite humbling, right? You know to think about it that way and even the feeling of bliss like in our in ourselves. You know what when we find a good feeling it's not going to be that way like endlessly. So it's going to change. Sometimes going to be really a good thing and then sometimes you're going to go through a passage that's maybe dark and that that's your next step you know. So you you're always going through, you know, it's everything changes sort of.
RTB: Yeah. Well, let's listen to this song.
[Austere bowed cello and clear vocals]
RTB: I'm thinking of the antenna. Is that in the Kurt Vonnegut story? It also reminds me of you being on the roof with your radio!
SJ: That's so funny. I never made that connection. I mean, that's amazing. Yeah. You know, I don't remember if it was in the story. I think maybe I came up with that. And it's interesting listening to this cuz this is an unmixed thing that we
RTB: It still sounds lovely.
SJ: Oh, thank you. We've been doing it as a band. So, this was just duo. We've been doing it as a band. I was like, maybe we want to do a band version. Like, you know, my thought for the new record is to have like duos, trios, and quartets. So, not just like a monolithic band.
RTB: I could hear some drums in there.
SJ: It would be kind of fun, right? Yeah. So, so we're kind of just we're kind of just pulling it together in a different way, a little bit more organic.
RTB: I'm excited about the new record.
SJ: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I'm pretty excited. You know, I mean, you know what it's like. It's really like an amazing thing to do to be able to do, right? And it's like you have these songs which are like I don't know they they make themselves important to you and so you're compelled to see them through, right?
RTB: Yes. Yeah. I I think of just everything being in service of the song. It becomes almost its own being that requires you to place it into history in whatever way you can.
SJ: Do you have something new coming out?
RTB: Yeah, I actually I have a record, my third record, but my first record to come out on vinyl. I recorded it over 10 years ago. So, it's been a long gap for me and I'm really It's really a big
SJ: So exciting.
RTB: It's really a big thing to be able to put vinyl would be wonderful. So, you already have it printed on by, you know, I might have to show it to you here.

SJ: It's gorgeous. The back is beautiful, too.
RTB: Yeah. So, the art was done by this incredible artist called Liz Downing, who's also a musician from Baltimore. Wow. And yeah, it's called The Little Wren, and it's my first It's my first vinyl. I'll put I'll put in the show notes also where you can get Serena's albums and and also my album. Maybe one day I'll I'll do a musical episode on the show. Maybe you can interview me.
RTB: Serena, I want to play one more song and ask you about one more song which was the one that really really gave me goosebumps. But before we do that, where can people buy your records? Can you tell us your website and how people can purchase music, see you live?
SJ: So my website is serenajost.com. Jost is with a j and then you can find me on band camp under that same name. I have things on YouTube. I can stand a bit of housekeeping on YouTube. So updating things but in the next months I'll be doing that and then um you know I'm on all the platforms and then also actually I do want to mention if people want to sign up for a mailing list I'm on my website you can sign up and I I'm doing this piece recently I've been doing I did a piece called Bloom which is a stage choreography of song which is um song songs with movement that I've created and text that I wrote. So it's sort of like a stage evening of song about Bloom the which is really about the emergent moment of beauty that is bloom and what comes before and after it. So.
SJ: Oh that sounds agricultural and very much up my alley. Yes for this.
SJ: Yes you can come. You can come and you know it's like and it's the band moves and we that's what we're working on right now is to find a theater for that.
RTB: Oh well please keep me posted. Yeah. Well, I'm I'm on your mailing list, so I'll be I'll be hearing about that. And congratulations on everything that you're working on. Is there anything else that you're working on right now besides the new album and that production?
SJ: No, I guess like I'm writing, I am co-writing with some people which is newer for me and I'm really enjoying that experience. Speaking of letting go and not possessing things and just having an exchange with someone. So, that's really good. And I'm always, you know, either writing new songs or those songs are writing me. You know how that is like you work on a song and sometimes you have like a stack of drafts and then sometimes one of them comes and you have to write it down as fast or record it as fast as you can. So kind of in that space, you know, creation.
RTB: I can't wait to hear what's next. It's been really wonderful to, you know, I've always thought your music was beautiful, but it's been wonderful to listen a little more closely and and see the different types of arrangements that you've made and it's it's really a joy.
SJ: Thank you. I appreciate your insight also. So I really appreciate and your lovely questions.
RTB: Oh, my pleasure. Yeah. So the other work in progress that you sent me is called St. John's. And you you mention your lyrics mention visions and dragons and an island and the word revelation. So of course I'm thinking about Revelation, the book of Revelation from from the New Testament. And so I'm not personally religious, but I have a lifelong fascination with the visionary part of the human experience, particularly the way it creates culture, like including local culture. But I also that connected with me because of another poet whose name I can't pronounce despite having studied it in college and having a poetry degree, which is here. You can help me. Look, it's German.
SJ: Yes. Friedrich Hölderlin.
RTB: So this L not being an L is hard just because I liked it. I had a little fragment from from his work read at my wedding actually in in 2019 and it was from "Patmos" which is the the the same island as the... I'm just going to read a few lines from this if I can find it. Oh, here it is. [reads] Near is and difficult to grasp the god. But where danger threatens that which saves from it also grows. In gloomy places dwell the eagles and fearless over the chasm walk the sons of the Alps on bridges lightly built. Therefore since round about are heaped the summits of time and the most loved live near growing faint on mountains most separate. Give us innocent water, o pinions give us, with minds most faithful to cross over and to return.
SJ: Wow.
RTB: So, another visionary.
SJ: That's incredible.
RTB: But I also thought of that too because of the Alps. And we didn't really talk about the mountains.
SJ: The mountains are magnificent and they're incredibly beautiful and inviting and rich and full of life and terrifying and dark and brutal and everything. you know, they give and they take, right? In at least in Switzerland, they did historically, a lot of different things would happen. But the mountains are like an orientation, you know, they when you have those shapes and you live in those shapes, it's really profound, you know. I mean, these days like as close as I can come to the mountain is the Empire State Building outside of my living room window. And I feel sometimes like okay it's a mountain. But the mountains, I mean you know Thomas Mann, do you know who that is? He's like a author who wrote about Davos and the mountains magic mountain is a famous terrifying thing but the mountains are incredible. The stones on the mountains are amazing. the views, the what it does to your vision, like you know, like you have like you're always looking at things and they're sort of close or in New York anyways, you're always hitting another right angle and in the in the mountains in Switzerland, you look out and you start to see more and more out and you feel your eyes opening and seeing further. So, you know, there's, you know, that everything the mountains are like all the jagged and magnificent thing and then the tiniest beauty like the mountain flowers that you have.
RTB: Oh, I love that so much. I went to Valtellina, which is a wine region in Italy, but on the border was Switzerland, and I just thought, "Oh my goodness, that's an Alp." I mean, they are big, very they're very imposing. And um and they are terrifying in a way, but it's also just an incredible beauty. And to make a life among on those steep places and in those extraordinary valleys, it's really special.
SJ: It is special and you and like it's so nice that you got to go there and see that. You also realize why people like why Swiss people are like known for their preparedness because it's like you had to you know have a method to handle those, that environment right? so you had to you know but the beauty it's it's so cool that you went there. Yes, it was amazing. And and there's going to be some more stuff coming to the Modo di Bere project about that adventure that my partner in the the TV show and I had in the mountains and in that wine region.
SJ: Seems like maybe if you need an assistant like for drinking and for mountaineering.
RTB: Let's talk about this St. John's. Now, I jumped all over with my own references and thoughts about it. Is there anything you want to tell us about the song before you played? I just found it really striking. It just kept giving me this like physical reaction.
SJ: Oh, thank you. Thank you. I mean, it is a tribute to St. John the Divine's Cathedral in Manhattan, which is a magnificent place. Architecturally huge. It remains unfinished. It has the cathedral itself that has an amazing social mission. They work with prisoners. There's, in the song there's a beautiful rose window that is there. And I guess some of what I was thinking about is the cathedral itself and I guess, humility before God, whatever God you want to talk about, whatever that means, godliness perhaps. And St. John the divine, you know, St. John had this vision. And then I thought of connecting it basically to the people of New York City and how it's this welcoming place to you know to people and it's part of our city and it actually is a welcoming place.
[cheerful bowed cello with austere vocals]
RTB: We didn't really talk about the cello.
SJ: Oh, that's true.
RTB: So, the cello, I think, has such a voice to it. In one of the other musical episodes that we did, I was talking to the multi-instrumentalist Amy Denio. I asked her if learning a new instrument was like learning another language, you know, and she said absolutely, you know. So, I just that's something about the the cello that almost I mean there's certain instruments that kind of feel like a human voice or that just you really feel like it's talking. I don't know. Maybe you could talk about that.
SJ: Yeah, I mean I think totally the cello has that. I think a lot of people, you know, walk down the street, people stop me like, "Oh my god, I love the cello so much." You know, and I think it is that voice sounds like something and um I guess, you know, it has a huge range also. So, and it pairs well with the human voice. So, I really enjoy singing with the cello. It took me a while to learn how to do that because you don't have frets. So, there's a lot technically that's happening. It's quite different when you're singing with a guitar. You know, singing with the cello is like thing. And a cello it's like, you can pass lines back and forth between your voice and the cello, you know, in this really easy way. The cello is really versatile also. You can make it kind of rock out, you know, or you can be really mellifluous, like legato. So, it's a kind of the gift that keeps on giving, and it's just the one I have is from 1910.Which is kind of special and it was found, you know, I was a vacation with my family and in the north part of Michigan and this school teacher who rented us this cabin had a cello. So he said, "You know, I have a cello in the basement." I was already playing. And you know, he was like, "I have this cello." So we went downstairs and there was this instrument wrapped in a green army blanket. And it was that's the cello that I have. Playing the cello is is a really rewarding in it's just a very rewarding instrument, you know.
RTB: And you teach as well. And do you teach remotely?
SJ: I do teach remotely. I enjoy that. I teach every age. I have I also teach like songwriting. So I have teenagers from teenagers. I have an 80-year-old uh cello new cello student. So, and you know it's happening.
RTB: I love to hear that.
SJ: Yeah. She's like you said it's never too Just keep on learning.
RTB: Never stop learning. Never stop learning.
SJ: Yeah. So, and I I enjoy teaching a lot. Like my students are great. Great. So sign up if you've you've always wanted to learn the cello. You've always wanted to learn Italian, you can listen to the Italian version of the podcast or the Spanish version that's coming soon and you can listen to them side by side and see how much you understand and if you if you've been wanting to play the cello your whole life. Don't put it off. Just hire Serena.
SJ: Yeah. Would love to meet you.
RTB: Yeah. Worldwide. So you can take take remote lessons. So you can they can contact you also through your website. Great.
SJ: Exactly.
RTB: Okay. Serena Jost. Yes. Buy her albums.
SJ: Thank you.
RTB: Stay in touch and and really thank you so much for coming on the show. It was an absolute joy.
RTB: Yes. Likewise. I loved it. Thank you. And thanks so much for your work. It's really special. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. You're tuning in. You've got the the antenna to the to the whatever whatever divine thing creates songs from the just feels like it's always coming from the outside.
SJ: And thank you. It's been such a pleasure to talk with you. really amazing.
RTB: Yeah. Well, I I look forward to to your next out recording and and thank you for putting these beautiful songs into the world.
SJ: Thank you so much.
RTB: Thank you. Yeah. And thank you to all of our listeners. Wherever you go and whatever you like to drink, always remember to enjoy your life and to never stop learning. Support us on Patreon. Grab the newsletter at mododibere.com and subscribe to the YouTube channel @mododibere to watch the travel show Modo di Bere TV. Music for the show was composed by Ersilia Prosperi for the band Ou. Purchase their music at the link in the notes.