> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://www.mododibere.com/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # ▷S3E9 The Flyaway Girl at Home in Gibraltar - URL: https://www.mododibere.com/podcasts/en/s3e9-penelope-flyaway-girl-gibraltar/ - Published: 2025-01-17T21:07:17.000Z - Updated: 2026-09-15T07:55:04.000Z - Description: An episode for people who love history, linguistics, mythology, geography and adorable baby monkeys. - Author: Podcast - Tags: English Podcast, #no-paywall, Animals, Season 3, #Migrated-1786647123788, #sqs, #Import 2026-08-13 18:52, Gibraltar, Llanito, Travel, Local Languages, Non-Alcoholic, Whiskey, #whisky, Gin, Andalucía, Sustainable Travel, Suncola, #Dialect Travel creator Penelope aka The Flyaway Girl shares the romantic story of how she came home to Gibraltar. From the sound of Llanito, the local language, to the flavor of frozen Sun Cola in a sawed-off carton, Penelope paints a delicious picture of the territory built on a historic rock. This is especially impressive given that Penelope is a photographer with aphantasia, the inability to visualize images in her mind. Penelope didn't learn to take photos to supplement her travel writing; she came into travel creation from photography, her urgent passion from a young age. Penelope shares her philosophy of sustainable travel and her love of languages and explains how Brexit has affected every day life for the residents and workers on this 6.8-kilometer peninsula. This is an episode for people who love history, linguistics, mythology, geography and adorable baby monkeys. It will make you want to visit Gibraltar. To plan your trip, you can refer to Penelope's [one-day itinerary](https://theflyawaygirl.com/one-day-in-gibraltar-itinerary/?ref=mododibere.com) for visiting Gibraltar, alongside her travel content from all over the world, at her website: [The Flyaway Girl](https://theflyawaygirl.com/?ref=mododibere.com) Follow Penelope on [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/the%5Fflyaway%5Fgirl/?ref=mododibere.com) > [ View this post on Instagram ](https://www.instagram.com/p/DFV9OP2SiAJ/?utm%5Fsource=ig%5Fembed&utm%5Fcampaign=loading) > > [A post shared by 🍷Modo di Bere Podcast/Travel Show about Drinks + Dialect 🇺🇸🇮🇹 (@mododibere)](https://www.instagram.com/p/DFV9OP2SiAJ/?utm%5Fsource=ig%5Fembed&utm%5Fcampaign=loading) > [ View this post on Instagram ](https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFGvU3oI5Rr/?utm%5Fsource=ig%5Fembed&utm%5Fcampaign=loading) > > [A post shared by Penelope | Hidden Gems & Travel Beyond Hotspots (@the\_flyaway\_girl)](https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFGvU3oI5Rr/?utm%5Fsource=ig%5Fembed&utm%5Fcampaign=loading) **Auto-generated transcript.** (Kindly excuse immaterial errors.) View Transcript ## Gibraltar's Linguistic Diversity — 0:00 P: It is an absolute just mishmash of different cultures, different languages. I can walk down the street at any time and I will hear English, Spanish, Llanito, Arabic, in particular Moroccan Darija. And then that's not even like including all the lines you hear from tourists visiting as a language lover. RTB: I love it all. Gibraltar sounds amazing. ## Welcome to Modo di Bere — 0:27 RTB: Welcome to Modo di Bere, the podcast about local drinks and local sayings. I'm your host, Rose Thomas Bannister. ## Meet Penelope, The Flyaway Girl — 0:53 RTB: I'm so excited to be speaking with today's guest, Penelope Louise, a travel writer who lives in Gibraltar and reports on underrated destinations on her blog The Flyaway Girl. Originally from Britain, Penelope speaks English, German and conversational Spanish. She's currently studying Japanese. Penelope's work is focused on hidden gems around the world, which is her way of promoting sustainable travel. Penelope, welcome. P: Thank you. RTB: Before I start the interview with Penelope, I want to let you know that Modo di Bere is a listener supported program. Please take a moment now to visit Patreon.com/mododibere to become a supporter today. *\[NOTE: We are no longer using Patreon! Become a member* [*right here*](https://www.mododibere.com/#/portal/) *to support Modo di Bere & unlock exclusive content.\]* Penelope, I'm so impressed by all your travels. I see on your blog and your Instagram. How many countries have you visited at this point? ## 61 Countries and Counting — 1:32 P: I think at last count it was 61\. I want to say it's definitely 60 plus. I think it's 61. RTB: That's amazing. How many countries are there in the world? I feel like I'd have to Google that. \[crosstalk\] Oh now, that's a good question. P: That's a good question. That depends on, what number you're using, because there are various, like, ways of measuring how many countries that are like what the UN recognized countries, which I'm not going to state the number because I know I'll get it slightly wrong. That someone will absolutely call me out for that. But it's definitely over 200. ## Defining Sustainable Travel — 2:00 P: So. Okay. Now I'm not I'm not quite all the way there, but we're on our way there. RTB: Do you have that goal to visit everywhere? P: I would like to, but whether it's really like feasible necessarily, then that's to be seen. I want to see everywhere in terms of the factor. I'd love to see everywhere, but I don't want to just visit a place for the sake of ticking it off a list. RTB: That makes sense. So, Penelope, how do you define sustainable travel and how does your work fit into that? ## The Cost of Overtourism — 2:38 P: For me, sustainable travel and sustainable tourism is just all about not having a negative impact on the place that you're visiting and on the world around you. It means completely different things to different people. So if for some people it's avoiding flying as much as possible, for some people they much prefer traveling by train. And I'm also the same like when I when I travel around Spain, I'd much prefer to take the train rather than flying, but sometimes the convenience of rides, the environmental friendliness, the cost is a barrier for a lot of people. I often had this issue when I lived in the UK, where it was be so expensive to take a train, let's say from where I used to live, which was near Southampton. I was looking at taking the train up to Leeds to visit a friend. It was cheaper for me to fly, which is absolutely wild to me, like it shouldn't be cheaper to fly than to get the train. So for me, sustainable travel is all about not having any negative impact on the place I'm visiting and leaving a place. Hopefully the same or better than how I came there. Whether that's by talking to local people and understanding more about how they want people to experience their destination. Learning the language which for me, I. I'm an absolute language nerd. I study languages in university. I've taught myself languages just for fun, like I was that child. So that's that's kind of what it is for me. And just finding the places, visiting the places that aren't necessarily on most tourist itineraries. RTB: When you say negative ways, what are some of the ways that people do have a negative impact or leave a place worse than you know? What should people avoid if they're trying to travel sustainably? ## Barcelona's Anti-Tourist Protests — 4:21 P: There's a massive issue around the world at the moment of overtourism, and it's not a new issue. A lot of people will put it down to places going viral on social media, but in all honesty, maybe that's exacerbated it, but it didn't cause it in the first place. There's a lot of backlash from influencers sharing places on social media, and so that caused the problem. Let's use Kyoto in Japan as an example. It's really been suffering from overtourism, certain areas like Eon recently. And they put like bans on tourists being able to go into some areas. And a lot of people blame it on, let's say, like Instagram influencers. People posting on social media about it. But the thing is, this was a place that was mentioned and is still mentioned in every single guidebook you read about Japan and about Kyoto. So it frustrates me a little that people kind of think it's a bit of a new issue where it's really not. To me, overtourism has so much of a negative impact on places it prices out locals. We've seen that recently with the protests in Barcelona and now I don't agree with how they were protesting. I don't agree with basically assaulting tourists to make your point. That should never be how it is. But I do understand where they were coming from in terms of we can't afford to live in the place where we're from, in the place where we work. When I moved to Berlin, I did a year abroad as part of my degree. It was so hard to find somewhere to live because everywhere people wanted to rent it out for Airbnb to tourists, because it made so much more money than someone having that accommodation for 12 months in a few. ## A Hot Take on Influencers — 6:02 RTB: And in New York City as well. In our case, the the city has recently regulated Airbnb a little bit more. So there's certainly some systemic issues that can be addressed not just by one person. Hot take on hating on influencers. By the way. Let me know what you think of this. I think we've got two things there that are really psychologically satisfying in terms of blaming someone. One is new technology, which for better or worse, right or wrong, is always a nice boogeyman, right? We're always like, that's how it works. It's like like. P: Oh, cause of the problem. When we went from a horse and carriage. RTB: Not to say that there aren't positive and negative changes with anything. This idea of what an influencer is and this kind of kneejerk negative reaction, I feel like everybody all over the world is always taking pictures with their phones. Everybody. If you go to any sort of concert or anything, everyone is watching it through the small screen, everybody. But as far as the people who actually go ahead and do well on social media, especially in the travel space, I feel like a lot of them are women. So there's this sort of image of like a woman having a good time that is sort of weirdly radical. Also, in terms of what it's like to be a woman on the internet. Do you feel like I'm onto anything there? P: I think a little bit. I think in a way, a little bit of it is jealousy. I don't think that's the only reason. But for some people, I definitely think that is that issue with it. They're not doing it. So they're going to vilify the people who do. I'm not going to deny that. Are some influences who do cause problems, who are disruptive. You've seen YouTube videos of people being so disrespectful to sacred site. It's not a case of, oh, there's no bad influencer, they're all bad eggs because of anything. It's the same way people vilify tourists like tourists bad. Or in my case, British tourists are bad. You get such a bad rep. I get such a bad rap as a Brit and I'm like, no, I don't even drink. RTB: Do you drink alcohol? P: Okay. It's one of those things, like you have a few bad actors and people just whore everyone with the same brush, and it is unfortunate. And it's why a lot of us who are in like the travel influencing industry. I moved away from using the term influencer to describe my work 4 or 5 years ago, because it started getting this seriously bad reputation, and everyone just assuming you're just trying to get free things out of everyone, you're just trying to exploit hotels and things like this. This really weird vilification of influencers just by virtue of they're called an influencer. ## Finding Love through Travel — 8:26 RTB: Can you first tell us how you ended up living in Gibraltar in the first place? P: So that is indeed quite the tale. So I didn't know that much about Gibraltar. Like turn the clock back. Let's call it five and a bit years. I didn't really know anything about it. I mean, I knew of its existence, but that was about it. I never really thought of visiting. I don't know why, actually, because knowing more about it, I'm like, oh no, this is a place that really should have interested me. But I guess you don't know anything about somewhere. Then you don't know. I was traveling in Bosnia of all places. I was in Mostar, and I was traveling back through Mostar on my way to go to split, where I was flying home from. So I'd already been through a muster. I wasn't there to really see anything. I was mainly just there to break up the journey from Sarajevo. I didn't want to go find somewhere different to eat. I'm lactose intolerant and I knew a place where they could cater for me and I was like, oh, I don't have to think. I'm just going to go to this restaurant. And so I'll go to this restaurant. And there was this group of three guys chatting to this. I think they were connecting a couple. They were just chatting. I'm by myself eating, you know, you're overhearing someone's conversation. I don't really know what they're talking. I you talk about doing, like road trips around the world or driving in different places, and then it comes up that they can remember the German word for motorway, me being the little nerd that I am, and also a German speaker. I just like piped up. I was like, it's Autobahn. Just like just just, you know, and the group of the three guys, they all sounded British. They invited me to join their table. We got chatting. I got on quite well with one of the guys. Isn't a little bit shy. But we got on really well. We ended up going to a bar nearby. I drank alcohol at that time, so that was. That was a lot of raki involved. I stayed in touch with one of the guys who, was in the group. The shy one? Yeah, the shy one. We stayed in touch. We talked so much. I went on a trip to Georgia and Armenia, basically talked the entire time. So I had this press trip to Agadir in Morocco coming up. I have like a few friends who might normally be my plus one, or my mom and my dad. No one was available and I was just like, oh my God, is this insane to ask? Like, I've only met this person once, but I was like, crazy question, do you want to be my first one? And he said yes. So technically our first date was a five day trip to Morocco. RTB: I have to say, sometimes when you go on a trip with somebody, you know, sometimes that works out and sometimes it doesn't. So how did it work out for you? P: Well, we're now engaged. So pretty well. RTB: He's from Gibraltar, right? P: He's also. Yeah. ## Moving to Gibraltar in Lockdown — 11:07 RTB: So how did you end up moving to Gibraltar? P: That is another funny story. Well, I never actually planned on moving to Gibraltar. I was, like, coming back and forth from between where I lived in the UK and Gibraltar. Because I worked myself doing my travel content creation full time at that time. So I would come visit for a few weeks, then go back home or go on trips, different places. And then I was came to stay for a month in February 2020\. Then lockdown happened. So all of a sudden I had to make this decision. Did I want to go back home and stay with my parents and then not know when I'd be able to come back to Gibraltar or stay? My parents had no issue with me staying. I mean, like, we kind of all assumed it wouldn't be that long. Yeah, I'm still here. RTB: So it felt right and it worked out. P: And my parents have actually since moved to Spain and sold the house in the UK, so. RTB: Oh that's great. So they're a little bit closer. That's that's amazing. Oh. ## Gibraltar 101: Common Misconceptions — 12:04 RTB: Tell us about Gibraltar. Give us the Gibraltar guide for the person who's almost never heard of the place. Give us some misconceptions and then set up the Strait of. P: Gibraltar is a British overseas territory. So you may have heard of Falkland Islands. We are a British overseas territory and we are located on the very south of Spain, only 6.8km². So really small territory. And yet we are a territory. We don't call ourselves a country more so not a county. So we actually don't have our own MP in the UK, we have our own parliament. One misconception is people are referred to as a colony. We are not a colony. People here get very upset if you call them a colony. Gibraltar has its own parliament. We have our own elections. I've lived here long enough now that I vote in elections here, and obviously I can't vote in the normal UK ones anymore. That's not our government. We have our own health system, our own health service, like our own police. The only thing we do rely on the UK for is defense. So, certain parts of the military in particular, like the Navy, do rely on the UK for that. But it does have its own military. There's an army, but generally, navy wise, it tends to rely on the UK. ## Where Is Gibraltar? — 13:15 RTB: Okay. And where is Gibraltar? P: If you think of a map of Spain, you've got Portugal on your left hand side. And then we go down. You end up going across the Strait of Gibraltar very well across to Morocco. So that be just above Morocco and south of the Spanish, autonomous community of Andalusia. You'll find Gibraltar right there. We border the Spanish region of the town. The other side of the border is called La Línea de la Concepción. Or it's actually like the line of conception, literally the town. The other side of the border is just called the line. ## Brexit and the Border — 13:52 RTB: What's it like crossing the border? P: This is where it's massively over the past. I say like four years thanks to Brexit. It used to be so easy you would just wave your ID, you could travel on just your like Gibraltar ID, Spanish ID and if just ID you didn't need your passport, probably should have done, didn't need to. But now I get stamped every time I cross the border. I have to prove that I have accommodation when I go into Spain. That they're really strict. The border now. My friend flew to Spain, flew to Malaga. Didn't have to show any proof of accommodation or over ten flight. Whereas me crossing the border to go visit my parents, I have to show that I have a proof of accommodation and that has to be a hotel. I have to be like I'm staying with my parents. Brexit is really complicated things and it's basically made a bit of a political minefield at the border. RTB: You're basically living in kind of a small town, like, I feel like a lot of people in a border area would cross the border, go shopping and come back. Is this filling up the pages in your passport really fast? P: Well, it was until we had to stop providing like proof of accommodation. I finished my last possible I finished in less than two years. It fills up in less than two years. Now, obviously you have to provide like proof that I'm staying somewhere and it has to be like an actual hotel booking. So I go a lot less often, which is a shame. I tend to visit my parents, like on the way back from something like, say, I've got to stay up in Malaga for something, or I book on the trip and I'm back to the airport, like I'll visit. And then that. RTB: Sounds like a drag for you. I'm sorry. P: It's pain. It is pain at the moment. My fiance is fine, so he has a red ID card, which is basically he's permanent resident here, whereas I'm not. I have like a civilian registration card because I'm a non permanent resident. I've to obviously renew my residency every so often. Essentially it's like whether you have citizenship versus a green card. ## The Languages of Gibraltar — 15:42 RTB: I want to hear a little more about the history of Gibraltar and what it's like for a person to visit. But let's start with language. So talk to me about language in Gibraltar. P: This is always something that really confused people when they come here. Because while yes, we do all speak English here, that's not really what you're going to hear. A lot of the time you'll hear a lot of Spanish, mainly because we have a lot of frontier workers across frontier workers. And this is also another reason why Brexit is very complicated here. Right now. Comment to the number of for my head. But it's thousands. We have thousands of people who cross the border every single day to come into Gibraltar to work, and that's why the people simply live in Spain and work in Gibraltar. Or they are Spanish as well. A lot of people from La Linea were in Gibraltar because there's more jobs here, and they do tend to pay better because our cost of living is higher. So salaries are therefore higher. So if you live in Spain, especially some of the areas just across the border, rent is so much lower. But if you're earning a Gibraltar salary, then you can do pretty well. So you'll hear a lot of Spanish from across frontier workers. A lot of people here also do speak some Spanish. A lot of people here have Spanish relatives or say a Spanish grandmother. But then you'll also hear what sounds like Spanish at first. But it's not, because then you'll hear English words, and then you hear words at English or Spanish, and that is Llanito, which is also pronounced Yanito. Yanito. Whichever way you want to pronounce it, you pronounce it differently. When people do speak Spanish here, as well, it is with a very Andalusian accent. So the double L in Spanish is quite small, like a G. Yeah, so you'll hear like caje instead of calle, boteja instead of botella, It's quite a different way of speaking here. The language here is Llanito and it is, I would say it is a Creole. I don't know if linguists would disagree with me putting that label on it, but in my unprofessional opinion, it's essentially a Creole because it is a language that has aspects of Spanish, in particular Andalusian Spanish, English in particular British English. ## A Language Built from Everywhere — 17:51 P: And then it also has aspects of languages like Judeo Spanish. So Haketia, from Maltese, from Genoese, Ligurian dialect, even some, I believe from Portuguese and Arabic and Berber like. There's so much like within this one language basically just grew out of all the different nationalities who lived here. We had a lot of people who came from Genoa want to say around the 17th century. Yeah, it just developed out of that and it is so interesting. But unfortunately, the best thing is, is that it is dying because a lot of younger people don't necessarily use it so much. You tend to mainly hear the older generation speaking it. That to me is it's sad and I want to see more to protect it here. ## Llanito Sayings, Explained — 18:33 RTB: Well, let's talk about it today. I think you have some sayings that you wanted to share with us, which you know, is our specialty here at Multi Berry. Oh look, you've got a dictionary that is so cute. So they recently. P: Released this book and it's like the Llanito dictionary. I was going through this with my fiancé and I was like, which ones have you heard. So. But his parents are British, so he didn't grow up speaking Llanito at home, which some people do, but he also heard it a lot in school. It's quite funny, the ones he knows, because a lot of them kind of like related to what you hear in school. So one of the first ones that he told me about was a phrase that, well, it's what's the word? Let's just push this. Not really any standardized way of writing it though, which is the other very confusing thing. So you'll see this written is like P-U-R-I-S-H. Some places we'll put it P-U-R-I-X-X, almost in like a Galician way of pronouncing the X. It's like a purish. It's like if you have a you've have like tag right in school and in baby like, oh no, no, like I'd say I'm safe. You can't get if you can't get me that here you say purish. RTB: So instead of crossing your fingers you say purish. Oh. That's funny. Do you know that? What what it means besides that use I did. P: Look, look it up before. It doesn't seem to have, like, a proven fluency. If you like full evidence where it's from, some places say it could derive from the English word like poor ish. That doesn't make too much logical sense to me, but I did see other some other places that said it came from a Judeo Spanish language. I don't know if I'll ever know, but it is. It is a common playground. RTB: What what other sayings did you find out about so many? ## Keke and Pankeke — 20:17 P: One of my favorite ones is where cake and pancakes. In Spanish, cake is torta, crepa is pancake in Spanish. I can't think of it all of a sudden. Here, cake you say keke and pancake? Okay. RTB: Oh that's adorable. P: Which is quite cute. I'm not gonna lie. Everywhere here has, like, local names. So that is. That is something I always have to remember when I'm writing my blog post as well. Everyone here refers to one square as piazza. It is not called Piazza. Officially, its actual name is John Mackintosh Square. But if you said, I'll meet your John Mackintosh Square to someone, they would just look at you like, why are you being so formal? But if you say to someone, are you a piazza? And then not from here? No, we're going to find it on Google Maps, right? ## Proverbs in Llanito — 21:00 RTB: Right, right. What about in terms of like Proverbs or kind of longer phrases to stick, just to give us a little more sense of the language? ## "If You Don't Ask, You Don't Get" — 21:17 P: He was one. So I basically asked around a lot of my friends who, done though I was like, tell me what? Like sayings that you guys would use or you guys know. So this is what one of my former colleagues actually suggested. The phrase is kicks por si pega, which makes no sense in English or Spanish. And it basically means like if you don't ask, you don't get apparently a lot of these kind of like sayings. They come from sayings that people use when playing the game of marbles. RTB: Oh really? P: Which is the most random origin story ever? Yeah, but the amount of times I was looking up stuff in the, in the Llanito dictionary talking about my fiance, it was like from games of marbles. Why is everything from games of marbles? RTB: Well, I think if you don't ask, you don't get is some, you know, pretty useful. You can sit there. P: Pixel data. RTB: All right. P: What else? One that I really enjoy because similar way of saying this in Wales as well. A lot of the phrases in Llanito are basically taken from very literally translating Spanish. This one I love and it's I'll do it now a bit later. ## "I'll Do It Now, a Bit Later" — 22:09 RTB: I'll do it now, a bit later. P: Yes. Which is that doesn't make sense. You can't do it now and a bit later. RTB: How does that make sense culturally? P: So apparently it comes from the Spanish hour long ago. And like now I'll do it. But then I don't really know how this has come to this, but I just love that it has. RTB: Oh okay, so it does mean now. But logo became Luigi go. P: Yeah, I think so. RTB: I'll do it now, became now and. P: Later I'll do it now a bit later. RTB: Oh that's so interesting. P: Oh no. But it does mean I'll do it in a bit. RTB: It doesn't mean I'll do it now. It means I'll do it later. P: Also, we're much more aligned with like Spanish timekeeping than we are with British timekeeping. I'll do it now is still later. ## How Much Llanito Do You Hear? — 23:00 RTB: So when you're in Gibraltar and as you're living there, how much shiny toe do you hear as you're going about your life? P: Quite a bit. Obviously, if you're not from here, people aren't going to just speak to you in Llanito. So for example, if you're like ordering in a restaurant, you may be speaking Spanish because a lot of the, hospitality staff, tend to be from Spain. So it's a bit of a mix, like some people will just use Spanish. Like I tend to just chat with them in Spanish or occasionally, if I don't know the words in Spanish, I will just like combine English and Spanish in one. Everyone knows, everyone understands. RTB: So pretty much people speak English. P: Yeah, yeah, generally people with like Gibraltarians families, they will talk to each other in Llanito. Cool. RTB: I'm so happy you came on the show. Teach me and our listeners more about this, because it's really interesting and this is just the kind of local language that I like to give some press. So hey everybody, now you know about Llanito, which is it spelled with two L's. Yeah, yeah. So L-L-A-N-I-T-O. Okay. Amazing. So this beautiful multicultural mishmash language from the territory of Gibraltar if we're going to visit to Brussels her what would you suggest for our day. What should we see. And what is the history of some of those places that we would. ## A Brief History of Gibraltar — 24:15 P: Visit a little bit on the history, just a little in a nutshell about Gibraltar. So Gibraltar was essentially like discovered, I suppose you could say, by the Moors in 711, which I always remember because it's like the like the store that was when the Moors came to Gibraltar. Pretty much made the first, basically made the first places to live here, made the first, not only colony, but settlement of settlement. ## When the Moors Arrived — 24:31 P: That's about it from the eighth century, basically flip flop between being Moorish and being Spanish. Like a lot of this region, if you know your Spanish history, then you'll know it was quite Moorish for quite a while. And then basically the Reconquista of the Spanish, the Catholic Monarchs of Spain, basically taking back Spain and eventually pushing out the Moors. So it's Gibraltar. It was it was Spanish, it was Moorish, Spanish, Moorish. You get, you get the idea. Gibraltar went back to Spanish in 1501 later on in the 18th century, quite a big moment in Spanish history. You had to of Spanish succession. It was during this that an Anglo-Dutch fleet basically captured Gibraltar. Gibraltar was a really it was an important place on the Mediterranean. ## The Treaty of Utrecht — 25:42 P: It was a very useful strategic location to have. Spain was distracted. Britain took it under the Treaty of Utrecht in 1711\. Nope. 1713 Spain officially ceded Gibraltar to Britain. They also ceded a variety of other places, including places like Menorca. They also ceded Sicily. I believe, and other strange areas, including Spanish Netherlands, which I didn't know was a thing until I researched just more recently. Still today, Spain claims Gibraltar is their own and obviously Britain claims Gibraltar as their own. It's a British overseas territory, so there is an ongoing dispute over the sovereignty. There's a whole variety of issues that come with that recently. I'm going to assume you're not really into your European football, but there was a recent issue where Spain won the euros and that celebrations in Madrid, two of the players started chanting Gibraltar es español, which is a Francoist chant. So quite a problem. Not ideal. They ended up getting sanctioned by UEFA, a big political minefield between the UK and Spain. Another reason why Brexit is very complicated. RTB: So it's not necessarily settled? P: No, not in the slightest like that. The government of Spain officially considers Gibraltar to be theirs. Britain is illegally occupying, in their opinion. RTB: Wow. So when you say Gibraltar was important, why was Britain interested in it in the first place? Was it a geographic location or a resource? P: I believe it was because of its geographic location, like on the Mediterranean. Basically, if you control Gibraltar, you can control the Strait of Gibraltar, which is that passage between the southern tip of Spain and the northern tip of Morocco, that area. So I believe that's why I was I'm not gonna say I'm any kind of expert on the strategic importance, but I believe that's, what it was, essentially. ## Gibraltar's Population — 27:41 RTB: So what's the population of Gibraltar? P: The populations around 30, 30, 2000\. Yeah. RTB: And then you also have people who are coming in to work every day. P: I believe it goes up to around maybe like 35, 37,000 based on people coming to work. But don't quote me on this numbers. RTB: Thank you so much. I feel like I understand so much better what this place is. And sort of the question of like, okay, it's not Spain, but it's not a country. What's the status, who controls it? So thank you so much for explaining that. So the next time I'm in Andalucia, let's say I want to make a day trip into Gibraltar. What should I see and what will I experience if I follow your travel advice? P: There is so much to see and do in Gibraltar. A lot of people just do a day trip. I personally think it's even better if you come and stay, because then you get to see more than just when the cruise ships come in, or when the tour busses come in Gibraltar in the evenings. For me is so nice because then the big groups of left for me. ## The Rock of Gibraltar — 28:45 P: I highly recommend actually staying in Gibraltar if you're able to, but even if you're not, obviously the mast is the Rock of Gibraltar, which is probably the best. I highly recommend actually staying in Gibraltar if you're able to, but even if you're not, obviously the mast is the Rock of Gibraltar, which is probably the best. Best known thing about us is that it's a giant rock. And with, Barbary macaques or most people to call the monkeys, but they are macaques. If we're going to be, we're going to be specific, definitely go up the rock. And there's a variety of ways you can do that. So that's whether you decide you want to go hiking up the rock. Personally, not my thing. And if you're not feeling quite that energetic, you can take the cable car or you can do a taxi tour. So the taxi association here does rock tours, which is a really great way of seeing Gibraltar if you only have a short amount of time. RTB: I love a cable car. I'm already imagining. P: Myself good cable car. I'm I'm big fan. I'm big fan. Of course. This is a really lovely restaurant of that amongst Cal Pay. They do weddings and wedding receptions up there as well. It's a normal restaurant. You can get drinks, you can go enjoy a meal up there or I believe they do cream teas, which I really want to do at some point. ## The Skywalk (Opened by Luke Skywalker!) — 29:48 P: Really nice place to go and have something to eat or drink. And then you've got the skywalk which was opened by, Luke Skywalker. Wait, what? Yeah. So Mark Hamill, who played Luke Skywalker, opened attraction here called the skywalk. So this is at the top of the rock. And it's basically it's a glass bottom. Platform. I think it's around 300, 400m above the above the sea below. The views are amazing. You get incredible views from up there. They called it the skywalk, and they had Mark Hamill officially open it. Luke Skywalker, open the skywalk. RTB: Oh, is it scary? P: Not for me, but I'm fine with heights. RTB: So tell me more about where this connects to. So if you're going out on the skywalk just to just go out over the water with the glass, is it like a tunnel? P: Yeah. No, it's a platform that goes out over, basically the, side of the rock. So the over the east side of the rock, you can see Spain now in front of you. You've got the Rock of Gibraltar to your left. Well, yeah, you're on it. But you really good views of over the rock to your left. And then to the right you can see Morocco. It is a really great place. And yeah, it's a glass bottomed platform if you're not good with heights and it might not be for you, but I think it's absolutely great. It was open in 2018\. I just double. RTB: Checked. It sounds like a beautiful views. But. So tell me more about these. But these monkeys for the macaques. P: Yeah. So they're Barbary macaques. Basically the only wild monkeys of Europe. They have a bit of a bad rap. It's not that they get violent. It's just if you're not careful, they might try and steal your stuff. So if you have a bag that sounds like it's food in or does have food in, you might be in trouble. There are signs everywhere. So it's not. This shouldn't ever come as a surprise to tourists when they go up the rock, there are signs that say like, don't take food. They offered to, but the monkeys, they're going to try and steal your stuff. RTB: So they have a bad rap for stealing your snacks. P: Yeah, basically. RTB: What do they look like? How how big are they? P: So you got the baby ones, which is so cute. I'm not sure what time of year, like, the babies are born, but it's the best time of year. That's so adorable. They're so diddy. Like the size of a kitten. Oh well. RTB: We'll find that and put it in the show notes so you can time it to the baby. P: Baby macaque season. Yeah, I've got pictures. They are so cute. But like the adult ones, they can get a bit territorial, especially when there are babies like the mother might get territorial. Don't get too close. They are wild animals. The usual rules apply. There's a lot of signs that to say don't take food off the rock because a monkey will try and steal. RTB: So besides the rock, what else should people see? Because that's the one that everybody knows about. But what are some of the other places? ## St. Michael's Cave — 32:41 P: So there's lots of other places up the rock, such as Saint Michael's Cave, which is probably one of the most impressive places. Imagine a cave just full of stalactites and stalagmites and then they put a light show in it. It's incredible. They started this a few years ago. I got to go see it with when I had a friend visiting and I took them there, and I didn't actually realize that I did this light show and it's called, I believe, The Ascending. \[actually The Awakening\] It is so impressive. It's a light and sound installation. So they have these lights going, different colors showing a story like the story of Gibraltar. It's, it's hard to explain. So basically all I'm going to say is you should come here and see it. And they also host music events in some Michaels caves. So next April. So April 2025, Russell Howard is doing a comedy show in the cave, which is so cool. Like, where else do you go where they hold comedy shows? You know, a giant cave? RTB: That sounds like an amazing venue. ## The Great Siege Tunnels — 33:48 P: The acoustics great, yeah. Then we also have the Great Siege tunnels. So these were tunnels that were dug out of the rock, sort of cannons, basically to defend Gibraltar against the Spanish, who tried to take it back on a regular basis. It's crazy to see like how they excavated these tunnels without modern technology that we would kind of expect to be used. It's highly impressive. They just did this, basically, but I think they're just dynamite pickaxes. Wow, that's just wild as a concept to me. I am no civil engineer, but it is, impressive. There are tunnels just throughout the rock. There's so many natural caves and then like, manmade tunnels. So I like to describe the rock as Swiss cheese. ## Windsor Suspension Bridge — 34:30 P: There's also Windsor Suspension Bridge, which is probably my favorite place up the rock. Again, don't go if you're not good with heights. It is suspended over a very large gorge, very large drop. But in my opinion, it's absolutely spectacular. I can actually see it from the top of the road where I live. The views are incredible. ## How Big Is the Rock, Really? — 34:55 RTB: Can you help me just visualize how much of Gibraltar of this 6.8km square is this big rock. P: Gibraltar is divided into different areas. So you've got Europa Point, which I'll talk more about in a bit. And then you've got South District, which is the kind of towards Europa Point on the southwestern side of Gibraltar. So we're Peninsula. So imagine also spent like a bit of a long triangle pointing downwards, pointing towards Morocco. That south westerly area is South district. The very southern area is Europa Point. Then you've got the east side, which is shockingly on the east where we've we've really got these descriptive names. I think you've got West Side, which is on the West, and then Health District. That's pretty much how Gibraltar is divided. And you can imagine all of this is basically like a ring around the rock itself. RTB: Okay. That's really helpful. Okay. So what about besides the rock? I'm sure everybody goes straight there, goes up, sees the sees the monkeys, has the monkeys steal their snack, takes a picture. What else can you tell us as a resident and travel writer, that people should see. P: It back to Europa Point, which is the southernmost point of Gibraltar, and it has amazing views of Morocco, if you're lucky with the weather, if you're unlucky with the weather, you see nothing. When my parents came to visit me for the first time, I just had to gesticulate and go. Morocco is usually over there. Just believe me, Morocco. ## The Pillars of Hercules — 36:42 P: Morocco's over there because you couldn't see it at all. But generally speaking, if it's a relatively nice sunny day, which we do get a lot of here you can see Morocco so clearly. Gibraltar is known as one of the pillars of Hercules. So if you know your mythology, it will enlighten us. Okay. Labors of Hercules is one of the one of the myths. Basically, Hercules was given these tasks, these labors, to complete, and one of them was to cross the Atlas Mountains. Hercules had incredible strength. So instead of climbing over the mountains, I forget why he actually had to climb over the mountains. I believe it was something to do about moving sheep or goats somewhere. Either way, he was having to get from one side of the mountains to the other side of the mountain. So instead of climbing over the mountains, he pushed them apart. Which, yeah, that is obviously the easier way rather than hiking. Clearly that is the way if you're Hercules. And so you push them apart. And so one side became the Rock of Gibraltar on the other side, if you are Morocco, it is Jabal Musa, the Mount Musa. If you are Spanish, it is a mountain that's in Ceuta, which is a Spanish territory in the north of Morocco. Now, if you're hearing this, a slight sound in Gibraltar that's similar to Jebel Musa. That's because it's because when the Moors founded Gibraltar, the Moorish commander who was first to arrive here was named Tariq. So it was named Jabal Tariq, or Tariq's mountain. It got moved into Spanish, the Spanish took the Moorish and then kind of Spanish-ified it. So, Jabal Tariq, it became Jabal Tar, which then eventually became Gibraltar. RTB: Oh, I love, I love an origin story of a name like that. So, Hercules pushing the mountains apart. That's an origin myth for the Strait of Gibraltar. P: It is. Water flowed in to connect the Mediterranean and the Atlantic, and that created the Strait of Gibraltar, according to the myth. That is why the monkeys are on this side as well. RTB: Because then they were just all over there and they. P: Were just chillin, and then someone's split them apart. RTB: So what else should we see in Gibraltar besides the Rock and Europa Point? ## A Walk Down Main Street — 39:08 P: Aside from that, you've got the entirety of the town area. So Main Street is like the main road that stretches all the way from Casemate Square, which is one of our major squares. It's where you'll find, for example, National Day celebrations, Christmas celebrations, all the way down to Trafalgar Cemetery, which is confusingly not a cemetery for everyone from the Battle of Trafalgar. Imagine this one road that stretches pretty much like the entirety of the main residential area. So one interesting thing about Gibraltar is this is a lot larger now than it was a few hundred years ago, and that's because of reclaimed land. Previously, anything outside of the city walls was water. We didn't used to be 6.8km. What? We used to be a lot smaller. So whenever you're in an area that is outside of the city walls, you have to remember that that was once water. RTB: So they built it like Venice. Yeah. Wow. Using what. P: That is a good question okay. RTB: That's okay, that's okay. We don't have to answer every Greek. So that's okay. So you're in Gibraltar. You're. What are you seeing? What are you eating? What are you drinking? What's the vibe? ## What to Eat in Gibraltar — 40:20 P: So I think walking down Main Street from casements to the Southport gates and Trafalgar Cemetery is something that everyone should do on that in Gibraltar. So Casemate Square is really beautiful square. I believe it originated in terms of the name. Anyway, and the architecture. I believe it was a barracks walking from there. You can then walk all the way down Main Street and you'll pass by Piazza, which we mentioned earlier, which is real name John Mackintosh Square. In John Mackintosh Square you have the City Hall, which is this really beautiful pink facade. Then you also have our Parliament building. Unfortunately, right now the Parliament building is, under renovation, so not quite as pretty right now. Sorry. The pink facade is the Parliament building. City Hall is actually currently where the, holding the show, what you call them in the US for, like, registry office weddings. They recently moved them from being at the registry office, which isn't that pretty, to City Hall, which is lovely. Nice. At some point that is where I will be marrying my fiancee. RTB: Oh, congratulations. What's the cuisine like? And, the eating and drinking dining life. Like, what are you going to be ordering? Is it kind of like British food? Is it kind of like Spanish food is. It's it's own thing. P: Los dos. It's essentially a combination of the two. So you can go somewhere and get tapas and next door you can get fish and chips. RTB: Ooh fun. P: I love that. Like literally in case mates, there's a place next to a fish and chip shop. I'm not even like exaggerating are right next door. So we have British style pubs like the Clipper, one of my favorite places for dinner. It's really good value that it really good food, essentially just really great pub food. You've got pies, you've got burgers, you've got all day breakfast. We have a really nice steak house. If you wanted something a little more upmarket, let's look. Gauchos, that is amazing. We've got some really great Indian places. Gibraltar has had a lot of people come from different areas. Aside from the UK, people tend to think of Gibraltar as, oh, it's just basically British expats. That is not not true at all. You have people who came from Spain to Gibraltar, and then you also have people who came, as I mentioned earlier, from Genoa, you have this Genoese population. They were formerly fishermen. There's actually a specific area in Gibraltar which is somewhere else you should definitely visit. That's called Catalan Bay or Caleta, La Caleta. Sometimes it's like little Genoa. If you know that region of Italy, you will see why it is these beautiful, colorful houses. They kind of think that it is gorgeous, so pretty that also bring me onto something food related in a bit as well. Aside from that, we also have people from Morocco. Then we also have people who came over from the Sindh province of I believe it is now Pakistan. I believe at the time it was India, and then after partition it became Pakistan. I found this really interesting because there are quite a few people who live here who are Indian heritage. We have a Hindu temple. When I first came here, I was like, why do we have a Hindu temple? Like, is there a big population of people like from India? Yeah, it's people who came from the Sindh province of what is now Pakistan, but who are Hindu and they came to Gibraltar. I'm not entirely sure of the logistics, but they did. You also find really delicious Indian food here? RTB: Oh, I really want to visit now. P: It is an absolute just mishmash of different cultures, different languages. I can walk down the street at any time and I will hear English, Spanish, Llanito, Arabic, in particular Moroccan Darija. And then that's not even like including all the lines you hear from tourists visiting. As a language lover, I love it. ## Penelope's Gibraltar Travel Writing — 44:15 RTB: Oh, Gibraltar sounds amazing. This. It seems like there's so much to see. So I'm going to point people to you. Have a blog post or two at the Flyaway Girl, which is your your beautiful blog with these beautiful pictures that you take. You take these incredible photographs. Had that always been an interest of yours, or was it something that you developed because you had decided to become a travel writer? P: No, it was definitely the other way around. I got into travel blocking from photography. As a kid. I was always wanted to steal my dad's camera. My dad had dSLR. I was always wanting to use it and take photos. So eventually when I was 15 for my birthday, my parents like 5050 with me. I paid half of it. They paid for half of it. So I even have my own dSLR. So I would stop saving my dad's camera. My dad wanted to use the camera. I love photography so much. So one thing that I think is probably the reason why I got so into photography is I have something called aphantasia. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but essentially I can't visualize in with like in my head. ## What is Aphantasia? — 45:02 P: So it's why sometimes I struggle a little with describing things or places, because I can't visualize like an image of that in my head. When people say like in their minds, I don't have one. I think that is possibly one reason that I got so into photography is because I couldn't see those pictures in my own head. RTB: Or to describe to someone else. So you could just say here. P: Yeah, it's. RTB: A picture. This is what it literally looks like. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the post that you've written on your website about Gibraltar specifically, and also tell us more about what people can get from your site and from your social media in terms of learning about the world and planning their own trips. I have two. P: Gibraltar blog posts so far. I plan on writing more. Currently I have one all about ten amazing things to do in Gibraltar, and that includes a variety of things I've already mentioned, as well as some that I did not have time yet to mention on here. So definitely go read that. If you're just in learning more about what you can do here. For the people who want to do a day trip, I have a one day itinerary for Gibraltar, which is completely from a locals point of view. All the best places that locals know. How to basically see Gibraltar the best way. Not fall for any tourist traps too much. Basically just how to get around. We have a few quirks as well. RTB: For those who are curious about what those quirks are, I'm going to put the links to those two posts in the show description so you can go there to interact with Penelope's site, but tell us the name of your website. Tell us the name of your socials, how people can follow you and support your work. P: So my blog is theflyawaygirl.com. I have lots of blog posts out all about hidden gems around the world, as well as itineraries for different destinations such as Genoa, places around Morocco and I'm currently working on my content from Japan. Lots to read there. You can find me on TikTok and YouTube as the flyaway girl and then on Instagram, which is my main platform. You can find me at the underscore, flyaway underscore, go on Instagram. You'll find loads of reels and photos from predominantly hidden gems and lesser known destinations around the world. My experiences and so much more. RTB: You have some pieces on your blog that feature different contributing travel writers, and I did contribute a little piece you did in your Hidden Gems of Spain post, which I'll link talking about my time in Galicia. P: And I'm just starting with my series on Instagram, sharing all the places that I have visited and that I love there. So that will be live when people hear this. So definitely go check that out. ## Where Penelope's Going Next — 47:54 RTB: I'm at this point today, where are you going next on Saturday? P: I'm flying up to Barcelona. On Sunday, my fiancé and I live on an 11 day cruise. Just so exciting. This is in collaboration with Virgin Voyages. We're visiting some places that I've been to before that I'm really looking forward to getting to know the lesser known side of this. It's shoulder season and we'll be visiting Santorini and Mykonos, which is not new to me, but they are new to my fiancé in Santorini, we're going to be working with a local company to show the less touristy side of Santorini, the areas the tourists don't necessarily visit beyond Ia and Fira, which are the main tourist spots that people tend to visit. My main reason that I'm so excited about this cruise is we are going to Corsica, Sardinia and Sicily, which are three places I've been on my bucket list for so long and I'm so excited to explore them. They're going to be linguistically so interesting. The language nerd in me is just freaking out about this, because Corsican, Sardinian, and Sicilian are amazing. Amazing. And we're going to Malta so I get to hear Maltese. RTB: Oh my God, I think you can see me freaking out here. P: I know I got an itinerary. RTB: Oh, I can't wait. I'm so excited for you. I can't wait to visit those places myself. P: We'll plan a linguist trip. I'll go first. RTB: Rate. Yeah, yeah, that's basically what I do. Are there any local drinks? They don't have to be alcoholic. That you want to mention. As we come to a close. P: I asked around for this one because I couldn't think of anything. So we do have two distilleries here. There's one that makes a local gin. So Campion gin. Campion is a flower that grows native here. And then we have another distillery where they make a whiskey, a rum and a gin. It's like a Trafalgar rum, Blackwater Cove Whiskey, which my dad is a absolutely lover of single malt whiskey. And he rates it very highly. Take that as a strong recommendation if you're into whiskey. So Black Stap! It's Black Strap! Cove Whiskey, which is place in Gibraltar. There is also a gin which I can't recall the name of, but it's by the same distillery. On the kind of very classic Gibraltar drink side. We have something called Sun Cola, nonalcoholic. This is like a little soft drink. ## Gibraltar's Drink: Sun Cola — 50:08 P: The actual like brand is called Sun Top and they make like an orange drink. And then there's like a tropical, there's like red berries and then there's like the cola one. But the weird thing about this, it's not from Gibraltar, it's not Spanish, it's not British. Would you like to take a wild guess of what country this originates from? RTB: The Philippines. P: Denmark? RTB: Denmark? P: Dubai? I don't know. No one seems to know why this is really popular here. But it is like you can go to, like, one of the beach bars and you can get frozen santo where they have frozen them. They'll cut off the top and then you can eat it with a spoon. Like imagine just going and being like I've like like frozen, like, I don't know, Capri Sun. RTB: Wait, is it in a, like a or a bag carton. Oh, they come in a carton, but is it carbonated? P: No. It's soft. Oh. It's like, not fizzy. RTB: Is it a cola? P: Yeah. It's like cola flavor, but it's not carbonated. RTB: Served in a carton. Like a juice box. P: Yeah, it's a juice box. It is literally a juice box. RTB: So Sun Cola is a flat cola flavored juice box that you can get from Denmark. Yeah. From Denmark. So random. What a beautiful. P: World to understand, but I love it. RTB: Can help you. This has been so wonderful and so thorough. I thank you so much for coming to the show and telling us all about this really interesting place. I can't wait to visit. Here's some more Llanito to learn a little bit more on my own, but until then, I'll enjoy just continuing to see your beautiful photographs and your beautiful blog posts. Thank you for doing this really fun work. P: Thank you for inviting me. ## Why You Should Visit Gibraltar — 51:51 RTB: It was so fun speaking with you. Thank you so much. Is there anything else you want people to know about Gibraltar? P: Just come visit. Come check us out. Experience also for yourself. Come stay for a night. Two nights. Just come enjoy our little slice of Britain in the sun. RTB: That sounds marvelous. I can't wait to come myself. Thank you, Penelope, to all of our listeners. Thank you. Wherever you go and whatever you like to drink, always remember to enjoy your life and to never stop learning. Support us on Patreon. *\[NOTE: We are no longer using Patreon! Become a member* [*right here*](https://www.mododibere.com/#/portal/) *to support Modo di Bere & unlock exclusive content.\]* Grab the newsletter at mododibere.com and subscribe to the YouTube channel at Modo di Bere to watch the travel show. Modo di Bere TV. Music for the show was composed by Ersilia Prosperi for the band Ou. Purchase their music at the link in the notes. 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