> ## Content Index
> Fetch the complete content index at: https://www.mododibere.com/llms.txt
> Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further.

# ▷S3E12 The Boot in 20: Marche (with Tiziana Forni)
- URL: https://www.mododibere.com/podcasts/en/s3e12-the-boot-in-20-marche-tiziana-forni/
- Published: 2025-02-06T22:37:52.000Z
- Updated: 2026-09-14T03:07:46.000Z
- Description: "Don't stop with Pinot Grigio, Prosecco and Chianti. They are good wines..but there is an entire world to taste."
- Author: Podcast
- Tags: English Podcast, #no-paywall, Season 3, #Migrated-1786647123788, #sqs, #Import 2026-08-13 18:52, The Boot in 20, Wine Education, Italy, Marche, Ancona, Ascoli Piceno, White Wine, Red Wine, Pecorino, Lacrima, Montepulciano (grape), Vernaccia Nera, Visciole, Matelica, Castelli di Jesi, Serrapetrona, Piceno, Verdicchio

[Ascolta in italiano / Listen in Italian](https://www.mododibere.com/podcast-it/s3e5/lo-stivale-in-20/marche/tiziana-forni)  
  
For the Boot in 20 series, an expert brings an Italian wine region to life, talking grapes, wines, climate and tradition–and advice for planning a visit! For the Marche, Rose Thomas interviews Tiziana Forni, a native of Ancona and a wine professional who specializes in Italian wines. 

Tiziana explains the etymology of the plural region name "Le Marche." She shares sayings about and from Marche, and goes over the major and minor grapes and wines in this region, from white to red, to sparkling red, to co-fermented with local cherries and served over gelato. 

Every Marchigiana we spoke to maintains that the Marche is a hidden gem that produces wines of excellent quality and value. Happy sheep wander the hilly countryside, (anecdotally) snacking on wine grapes, but only from certain vines. Studded with walled medieval towns and home to one of Italy's most gorgeous piazzas, Marche deserves consideration for your next wine trip.

> [ View this post on Instagram ](https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGTeDapJ8Sa/?utm%5Fsource=ig%5Fembed&utm%5Fcampaign=loading)
> 
> [A post shared by 🍷Modo di Bere Podcast/Travel Show about Drinks + Dialect 🇺🇸🇮🇹 (@mododibere)](https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGTeDapJ8Sa/?utm%5Fsource=ig%5Fembed&utm%5Fcampaign=loading)

**Auto-generated transcript.** (Please excuse immaterial errors.)

View Transcript

## Tiziana Forni, Expert on the Wines of the Marche — 0:00

TF: You have the fortune that you have the wine from all over the world. Experience. Explore. Don't stop to Pinot Grigio for Italy, Prosecco and Chianti. They are good wines. Of course you can keep on drinking because they are good wines. But there is an entire world to taste.

RTB: Welcome to Modo di Bere, the podcast about local drinks and local sayings. I'm your host, Rose Thomas Bannister. \[music\]

## Welcome to The Boot in 20: Marche Edition — 0:57

Today I have the pleasure of interviewing Tiziana Forni to teach us about the Marche for the Modo di Bere series The Boot in 20\. In this series, I'll bring on an expert for each of Italy's 20 wine regions for an educational overview. We'll talk regional history, challenges, and opportunities for the present and the future. Soil. Climate. Grapes and wines.

Wine laws and tips for how to visit. Whether you're just getting started with Italian wine or you've been a fan for years. One thing is you can always go deeper in Italy and there's always more to learn. So perfect for the show. Since the Modo di Bere motto is to try new things, enjoy yourself and never stop learning. So before I introduce Tiziana Forni, I want to let you know that Modo di Bere is a listener supported program.

So please take a moment to visit Patreon.com/mododibere and become a supporter. Today. Tiziana and I will be here when you get back.

*\[NOTE: We are no longer using Patreon! Become a member* [*right here*](https://www.mododibere.com/#/portal/) *to support Modo di Bere & unlock exclusive content.\]*

So Tiziana was born and grew up in Ancona, the main city of the Marche region. So she's a native of the Marche. She started to work in the wine industry in 2003, which was really love at first sight, seeing as at the time she wasn't even drinking wine. Tiziana is a wine educator and certified sommelier who moved to New York City in 2015, working as an Italian wine specialist for a wine importer. Tiziana, welcome.

## Meet Tiziana Forni, Marche Native and Wine Educator — 2:14

TF: Hi. That's very nice to be here with Rose.

## How Tiziana Forni Fell in Love with Wine — 2:17

RTB: You weren't drinking wine when you first got interested. How did you get into wine?

TF: I know this is very funny. I have all my friends in Italy that they look at me. I can't believe that you are a wine expert. When I would say yes, like 25 years ago, I was not drinking wine. But this, I think because, you know, people think that the Italians are expert in wine. Maybe it's not totally true what it is.

That wine is a part of our culture. So we are used to have to see wine. You know, since the very beginning when we are like a little kids. So for us it's very normal to, to have wine in, in in the house, in the family. So at that time, and the wine, when we were going to have a pizza together, it was most of the time the house wine, which I'm sorry to say now, I will be a lot of enemies, but I don't like house wine, especially when he's not bottled, because I, you know, when they were pour this wine, I thought, oh my God, this doesn't smell nice. I can't have something that it doesn't smell nice. And my friend was say, oh, you are. So do you say snob like that? You know, like this I say, I, I maybe, but I, I don't eat food that does smell not nicely. I don't even drink that wine that doesn't smell nicely.

Then it happens that I started in '23 to work for a wine merchant and I say, okay, I need to, you know, to start to discover this world and so I, my first two wines were...

So well, one actually is a red wine from Marche region and is Lacrima di Morro d'Alba. And the other was a Gewürztraminer, which is a different region. And I say from the bottle bottle wine and I say This is really quite different stuff. And that's how my one passion, born and growing up at that time, I feel really there needs to, to get education because I really could understand white, red, a little bit of rosé. Rosé that time was not really, you know, a big stuff in Italy. And so I made all my education as a sommelier certification which is useful. You have to study.

## Lacrima di Morro d'Alba — 4:54

RTB: I love that it was a lacrima that got you interested in wine, because it's a pretty unusual grape that you don't see that often. And speaking of the smell, it's very aromatic and floral. I think Lacrima is beautiful, this kind of purple colored wines in Italy that smell like violets and smell like roses. This is some of my favorites.

And there's a few different wines from that category. And I just I'd like to joke that, well, people will sometimes ask me for my favorite wine, and it's like asking a musician for their favorite musician. Like, we just are going to pick one. But you know, if I'm feeling feisty, I could say, well, I like those wines that make my burps taste like violets, you know?

## A Saying from Marche About Bad House Guests — 5:30

So anyway, it's a silly story. But before we get to the wines, do you have a local saying from the Marche to share with us?

TF: Oh, I have many. Unfortunately, I'm not that good to speak in dialect. I don't really, I have even a strong Italian accent. I would say use an accent from central Italy. Okay. But people, they, they struggle to understand where I am from. But when I am in Ancona with my friend, I, you know, I'm like, yeah.

RTB: So what was your experience with dialect growing up? Was it something you heard a lot? Were you told to speak proper Italian?

TF: My mom and dad were like a very simple person. You know, believe that. You know, they they especially my dad lived the, you know, was a kid the during the Second World War. So they didn't really have the, the possibility to get to like high school. No. So you know like a simple parents. So but I don't know for some reason we never talk the the real dialect. I can't even tell why.

RTB: But you still you brought a modo di dire.

TF: The most famous, which is not nice, which is not the dialect, is in Italian: "Meglio un morto in casa che un marchigiano alla porta."

RTB: So better to have someone dead in your house than someone from the Marche knocking on the door. Why did they say that?

## Why Italians Say "Le Marche" (Not Just "Marche") — 6:54

TF: Because Marche. First of all, it doesn't mean market, but it means border because Marche was under the Pope, under the Vatican State. But the being Roma, the on the west side and the Marche on the east side, it was the border. So technically I always say the people living in Marche were the IRS collector, IRS.

RTB: So like the tax collector like that.

TF: So I mean that they were knocking the door to ask for taxes and of course. And nobody loves them.

RTB: And so when I'm in Italy, I notice that you know, you will use the definite article to refer to the regions. And the reason I'm saying the Marche instead of just Marche is I think it's like a plural region. What's the reason for that?

TF: That's very correct, very true. Good insight, because all the name of the region in Italy are a singular. So you say la, which is the article Toscana in the case of Marche is a plural noun. So you say le Marche, which is the article in the plural form.

RTB: So the borders.

TF: So it's le Marche, where you have la Toscana, il Lazio.

RTB: Oh, I wonder why Lazio.

TF: La Campania, il Piemonte.

## Italian Region Names: Masculine or Feminine? — 8:27

RTB: Why are some of the regions masculine in some of them?

TF: Because the regular rule in Italian is when a noun ends in O. And I think, you know, when you speak the language, sometimes it's difficult to get out the grammar rule. But in any case, ending in O is a masculine, ending in A is feminine.

RTB: But Il Piemonte? Oh, sorry, sorry.

TF: We are Italian. We have exceptions.

RTB: But why is it plural?

TF: Because the singular is La Marca. La Marca di Ancona, which is the main city, La Marca of Osimo, which is another city. La Marca di Fano, which is another city. So altogether Le Marche.

## Where Is the Marche on the Map? — 9:20

RTB: So does Marca. I mean, you said it meant border. Does it mean brand like.

TF: No, no no no no, this is from the Latin and means like the city. The town. And so altogether Le Marche means that they were at the border.

RTB: Where is Marche located on the map.

TF: So on the map, I think, I mean, I can show for the video. Yeah. So for those that are just listening is central Italy and is on the East coast, so on, really on the Adriatic Sea for those that they are, you know, on the video, yeah. Maybe you can show where is Marche. North is bordering with Emilia-Romagna on the west, Umbria, and the little bit of Tuscany. The corner is also is Emilia-Romagna, Tuscany, Umbria, Lazio is very small.

RTB: And then Abruzzo.

TF: And Abruzzo and the on the east side is Adriatic Sea.

RTB: So it it borders several different central Italian regions.

## The Geography and Climate of the Marche — 10:34

TF: You can see again, unfortunately for those listening, is a little bit more difficult that the, territory is, like mostly hilly and mountainous, I would say like a 40% hilly, maybe even 50 and good, 20, 30% mountains. There is not really flat.

RTB: Land, which is good for wine, right? Typically some elevations and slopes.

TF: So what is very interesting, if you look from north to south, you see River.

RTB: Okay. Oh yeah. Okay.

TF: There are 15 rivers from north to south that they really flow, in a parallel way. Oh, yeah. And, the, the shape of things like a big hair comb. Okay, okay. That to you have like a and this is, you know, very good for the climate though, because of course, everybody knows the water is so, you know, thermo regulation and the so you have this valley and you have the mountains with the breezy and the cooler area.

Yeah. And you have the breeze from the ocean. But also what is very important this side, the the Balkan. So Marche usually have a lot of, cool hair from the Balkans and typically the, this part of this coast is a little bit cooler. In the past, the we used to have a little bit more snow. I am from Ancona. You can see that Ancona is really on the water. But the we, we had a lot of snow typically I would like to say like I try to say Modo di Dire in anconetano.

RTB: Oh sure.

TF: In anconetano. So if anybody from Ancona or nearby is listening, I'm pretty sure that knows. And is a discorre né fadiga.

RTB: Discorre né fadiga?

TF: Which means, a parlare non è difficile.

RTB: It's not difficult to talk.

TF: Right, ma a fare, which means a parlare non è difficile, ma ad agire.

RTB: My other great.

TF: Spesso è molto più difficile.

RTB: Special.

TF: Meaning that people talk, that's it. But they don't do anything.

RTB: Can you say the whole phrase for us.

TF: A parlare ne fadiga.

RTB: That's everything okay? Yeah. Oh, it's Fadiga like to make you tired.

TF: Fatica fatica to make an effort.

RTB: Okay. So it doesn't cost you much effort to talk, right? Yes. All right. So we would say in English talk is cheap.

## A Saying in Anconetano Dialect: Talk Is Cheap — 13:00

TF: Oh, yes. Now, you know, talk is. Yeah, sure. Or maybe, "Can che abbaia non mucica".

RTB: Cane baia non muccine?

TF: Cane che abbaia non morde.

RTB: To buy a. Is that to bark.

TF: Yes.

RTB: So the dog that barks doesn't die?

TF: Doesn't bite. Doesn't because, so, means that people person that uh, you know, is very, agitated, screaming most of the time is, you know, cool, innocuous.

## The Natural Wonders of the Marche — 13:36

RTB: Yeah. Those are great. What is the Marche known for besides wine?

TF: Besides wine, of course, is, I mean, all the Italy, I would say, is a beautiful country. And all the region are beautiful. What I think is very appealing. You Marche. That is really an off the beaten path. I mean, people from especially from United States, if they think to go to Italy, I don't think that the first four days to visit Marche. But I think that, is very interesting, especially for those, people that they don't want to have a mass tourist place, which is Marche. So in terms of what is a well known, I would say that the in terms of beauty of nature you have mountains, you have hill. And do you have a beautiful beaches, the mountains, especially there is a mountain and it is called Montepilato, sorry, the Lago di Pilato, which is a glass lake, only there is no river.

RTB: So it's just still. Yeah.

TF: So it's really, really beautiful. Then the other, the Conero area, which is along the coast, and you have some we call Mont, it is more hill because it's 500m that it really go in the water and it's totally green. Then you have a beautiful of formation like, you know, like a small canyon in the South Marche that we call Calanchi. But also we have, the Grotte di Frasassi, which is our caves that are made the wave, you know, for the for like, the water still in that the form. So the the.

RTB: Stalactites.

TF: Yes. That sound and are the biggest in Europe. Wow. I'm the biggest. Oh, this is a really a destination to see this in terms of, not to, but in terms of, art, I mean, Marche is consist of a small town. Most of them are, middle aged medieval towns. You have, there, on the top of the hill with the castle and the wall around, which are very typical, for example, Ascoli Piceno is one of the most beautiful piazza in Italy, which is called Piazza del Popolo and is really like, made of travertine.

You is something very, very beautiful made.

RTB: It was on the marble.

TF: Marble Travertine.

## Marche's Famous Art, Music, and Travertino Marble — 16:02

RTB: Down. What is Travertino.

TF: Is a kind of. It's a white marble.

RTB: Oh, wow. Okay, so.

TF: There is a kind of marble. I mean, I'm not talking of Ancona because that is my is my home is beautiful. But, you know, when you live in a place, maybe you you obviously so them this is, you know, very interesting. Maria Montessori is from. Okay.

RTB: Okay. So that's a famous name about the school educator with the Montessori.

TF: School, which in Italy is not a the creation system that is in the primary schools. Don't ask me why, I don't know. Well, I don't know the reason, but the air is very famous around the world. Famous is very families. Also we have like a Gioacchino Rossini, which was a for a composer told me. Now I don't know your musician. Maybe you heard Giovanni Allevi.

RTB: No, actually, tell me.

TF: Just Google is, is a pianist.

RTB: Oh, nice. Nice. I'll check it out.

TF: Yeah. Check it out. Giovanni Allevi, which is very popular, actually. Maybe. I don't know if, you know, performing in United States, we have own some pretty famous, sports man, the sports kind of like in the past, the Valentino Rossi for which was a for many. He was the world champion, motorbike.

## Marche's Olympic Champions — 17:16

RTB: Oh fun Gianmarco.

TF: Tamberi. Somebody that is a Olympic and world record. Then, high champ Sofia Raffaeli, which is. How do you call rhythmic gymnastics, rhythmic gymnastics. And then she is, Olympic and world champion as well.

Oh, and, of course I forgot I was forgetting the most famous Marche we are very famous for. Shoes is probably the most famous district in Italy.

## The Marche: Italy's Secret Shoe Capital — 17:49

And nobody knows. So we have Tod's, Cesare Pacciotti, I would say very high end brand that there is a district that is, a little bit South of Ancona. The is called Civitanova Marche. All that area, which is really one of the most important district shoes and the we call this Liscarpari.

## Where to Start with Marche Wines — 18:16

RTB: So let's talk about the wine. If you had a friend who'd never had a wine from the Marche, what are some of the ones you would suggest that you try first?

TF: Okay. We already talk about lacrima, I think is the most distinctive red. I mean, first of all, I suggest a native grape, right?

Yes. Because of course, in Marche we also plant, Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, and Syrah or Chardonnay, I would suggest. And a native grape in the red. I think that Lacrima di Morro d'Alba but it's very distinctive is unique. I usually define is a grape that, split the audience 50/50, especially when, not not only, you know, not only Americans, but also Italian, that they never tested this and this wine, they is so different that, sometimes you, you know, there is the parts who say, oh, wow. And some parents are they say, I don't know.

RTB: It's some those aromatic floral. Yeah. Flavors can be.

TF: Floral. But it's then is definitely in dry a lot of spicy like, cloves, ginger, white pepper. And most of the time is not aged even is from the right. It's from the grape for white. I would say that.

RTB: Course. Yeah.

TF: Oh, instead of looking.

RTB: Verdicchio, one of the great white grapes of Italy. Right.

## The Ancient History of Wine in the Marche — 19:44

Let's talk generally, what is the history with wine in the Marche.

TF: In Marche this sound upon them we call the Piceno. So Ascoli Piceno is a the main city in the district which we call Province in Marche. We have the five provinces that were formed. But Don, they are these. They change five, maybe 20 years ago I don't remember so Ascoli Piceno the Piceno people came before the Romans. There are historical details that the wine was used all the time. And it was also, you know, a pretty good quality for of course, for this for the time. It's very old.

RTB: So very ancient. Yeah.

TF: Ancient. Yeah.

## The Three Wine Zones of the Marche — 20:40

RTB: Wine history. That's so cool. We already spoke about kind of the climatic and geographical features with the rivers and the hills. Maybe you could just give us a mental picture of the different zones and tell us a little bit about the grapes and the wines from each zone, and then explain what those wines taste like again.

TF: And we talk about the rivers that, of course, are good for the I mean, are good for all the farming, actually and we talk about the the Balkan stream. Let's think like, kind of three different area, which is one that is in the coast, one is in the middle, and then you have the mountains. And so in the coast, so you have more like a sand, sandy gravel and of course, marine sediment. Okay.

RTB: Seashells. Yeah.

TF: Yeah, yeah. Not not totally, not totally. But yes. Then you have the, the middle area which is more a clay formation. And then you have the higher higher. It is more like a, do you say like a granitic marly formation.

RTB: In terms of DOCs, DOCs, what are some of the most well known or important areas in your opinion?

TF: In Marche there is not really area. The DOCG are five and all this. The first DOCG was a one. Probably nobody knows: Vernaccia di Serrapetrona. Then there is Verdicchio, Conero, Offida, and Verdicchio di Matelica, because they split the Verdicchio: Castelli di Jesi, Verdicchio di Matelica, so five DOCG. Before we were in the same disciplinary out of the normal wine as under reserve.

Now the Vernaccia di Serrapetrona, Vernaccia, what do you think, is it white or red?

RTB: I think this is a trick question and it's a Vernaccia Nera. Is it a sweet Vernaccia Nera? Is it sweet? Is it?

TF: It can be a sweet. It's like Lambrusco. Okay. Oh, is that you can. Yeah. The Vernaccia Nera DOCG is a sparkling. There are also still some. It's a long process because first you need to dry. Oh you dry it. Yeah.

RTB: Okay. Interesting.

TF: You tried the grape and, so you basically have a lot of, processes to, to get the wine.

RTB: So you dry the grapes. Yeah. And then you make it into a sparkling wine.

TF: Yes. Dry. Then you do the one necking and then you do the sparkling.

RTB: So what does that wine taste like?

TF: You kind of have the drive sun down below or a little bit sweeter version. The most famous is quacquarini and you think a Lambrusco because it's a red sparkling but more spice, less fruity to be more spicy, which can be like cloves, tobacco and a little bit of wild aroma. The aroma it's different is very different.

## Marche's Five DOCGs, Starting with Vernaccia di Serrapetrona — 23:41

RTB: So when you say the first, you mean the first to be granted the dog. For people who are unaware, Doc and Dog are quality wine regions in Italy. There are other levels which also have good wines in them. But people talk a lot about the doc and the dog, and the dog is a little bit of a stricter level.

TF: Which is DOCG basically is a extra guaranteeing for your range. It's a smaller area. You have very specific, rules like position of your DOCG or the ridiculous DOCG is really related to to the aerial exposition. Il porettar term. And then you have all day profile when they, you know, then did you see the strip that you see in the bottle is released by the Chamber of Commerce and basically the producer they have to submit the sample of the wine and the Chamber of Commerce, the taste and make all the test. And if they think they the wine, respect the rules of the the cute street.

RTB: So that's the part of it that's this quality guarantee is it's actually tasted by someone who's making sure that the wine fits and has followed all the rules. It's such an interesting process. So we spoke about the one that was granted dog status first, but maybe if we spoke about the more famous, maybe we talk about the red wines and about the white wines. Should we start with their here in general?

TF: Like a little like is the grape okay. And the Marche there are two main area. One is Verdicchio dei Castelli di Jesi. So Castelli di Jesi is an area which is much closer to the coast. Okay. Verdicchio di Matelica is the name of the town, which is really, you know, really under the mountains. And so not any case all Matelica very different climate. The reality is it is what we call Coastal in Italian we say is fatter because it is a bigger texture. You have acidity, you have a lot of fruit. You have mineral, tone than which mineral does really mean a lot. But you have a little bit of Flintstone. It's it's rich, it's the white wine, but it has a really a lot going on.

## Verdicchio dei Castelli di Jesi vs. Verdicchio di Matelica — 26:00

The Verdicchio di Matelica, on the other hand, because of this, the cooler climate is a little bit leaner, very elegant, but a little bit leaner. So it's really surprising how the same grape as a different behavior I'm telling about, less than one hour driving probably stuff flow. One note the last part of Castelli di Jesi to Matelica maybe can be even 40 minutes 30 minutes driving and all. This area is the small town. They are all middle aged. So there is the hill, the castle on the top and the with the wall, around. That's why Castelli di Jesi is the main town in the area. That sounds.

RTB: Beautiful. So characteristics of vertigo generally flavors. Can you tell people what if you're ordering a dirty queue and you say, oh, this is a very detail. What are some of the characters.

TF: This scene sure definitely is the Almond that it has this almost signature, but in a pleasant way. And it's not a bitter that it depends, of course. So from you know how did the production and everything. But we are not talking about any specific brand typically is the, that that you really feel is a big finish for those that the can see usually feel like here.

RTB: You feel it on the, on the end, this little bit like not bitter.

TF: But nice and some bitter is an all month. That's very pleasant. That's the usually the the typical senior tour of.

RTB: Italy and very cute. I feel that the reputation of this grape and the excitement about the wines in the wine industry has been kind of something to talk about in recent years. Could you tell us about that?

TF: You know, I believe that Verdicchio for sure is one of the most popular white wine in Italy, because it has, of course, is a wonder, can age. And I really, really invite everybody not to ask for the current vintage. You know, a few months, the 2024 wouldn't be released for the like, wait, as at least 2023, if you find everybody.

Oh, I know I one did the new vintages, but this wine really keeps the best after a while because it's rich is a lot. We usually say un rosso vestito da bianco.

RTB: The red wine dressed as a white. Yeah, because of the age ability, believe me.

TF: Taste the some. You know, especially in the version classical superiority for sure. You you you will be very happy in some way. Unfortunately, the verdict in the past was considered that a kind of cheap wine, like a pizza wine. There was some, marketing, process that the probably the didn't achieve the the result I don't know that was I'm talking about the like a 30 years ago and that was not in the wine industry of course.

## Why Verdicchio Deserves Respect — 29:00

I mean the quality now is better, I would say every wine everywhere because the specific the, the farmer, the one producer pay a lot of curve, care in the vineyards, all the technical details in the cellar. So of course the quality is improved for for every wine. I should say that I think. I don't know, for some reason, at this, ah, you know, consideration to be a cheap wine.

RTB: A lot of times I think we get confused by marketing or products that are available or widely sold, and then we associate that, at least in the American market, with the grape. Right. We think since they make a lot of Pinot Grigio is a really good example. They make a lot of very cheap Pinot Grigio. But that doesn't mean that Pinot Grigio always makes wines that taste like that.

TF: So like I think is different because the you know, I think that the production in Marche is one tenth of production in Veneto. So it's a very tiny production. That's one of the reason also because Marche is not well known right now for the wine, I mean Veneto, Veneto, the Pinot Grigio, Prosecco Amarone.

RTB: Right.

TF: And the production is big. That was the past the now in the last I would say ten years likely the cure goes back to be no more is the quality wine.

## Pecorino: The Marche's White Wine Comeback Story — 30:40

RTB: Yeah. So let's talk about the reds from the Marche.

TF: I just would like to add the one white wine in my good that is. And believe me, is so popular now. Pecorino.

RTB: Pecorino of course.

TF: Pecorino is really on fire now. I, I struggle, you know, to present in a video because I like both. But now I seen the people are also curious for the name.

RTB: Oh yeah. So tell us about that.

TF: Pecorino is a big success in the last 20 years because it was a grape for its characteristic that was almost dismissed. The because it's a it needs a lot of care in the vineyards, but also the yield character is very low. So I think in the '60s they were not interesting in having low production. They were more interesting to a big production.

Yes. Luckily there were some people in the Marche, some producer that they, they wanted to have these grape back and they found the some, raw pre-fillossera just, you know, we've all done that with vine, let's say. Yeah. Old vine in a place that is called Acquasanta Terme and is very high, like 600m. And at that point they started, you know, to plant in a little bit lower area.

And the very first bottle was, vino da tavola, table wine and then Marche IGT 2001, DOC. And 2011 Offida. So in Marche, Pecorino, if it's under Offida DOCG, is the DOCG because there is also Pecorino from Abruzzo. Now we talk about Marche, Offida DOCG Pecorino.

RTB: The progression that you just described I think is a good microcosm of the Italian wine laws. You can see something that these designations are kind of a recognition of quality, progression and quality.

TF: What he was important that you don't get, DOCG easily the producer need to be together, right? I mean, DOCG basically 20 years means that there was big interest. And because the wine was, you know, now Marche is more a white wine region. Yeah. With Pecorino and, and there are other white wine, like Bianchello, Ribona, Passerina, many, many white grape. And the we should taste when they have the possibility Garofanata. For me is new. Mai sentito.

RTB: Maceratino.

TF: Ribona or Maceratino, is the other white grape. There are so many Bianco, Bianchello, it's more called Biancame. And the Bianca is the name of the wine. But, Okay. Right.

## What Does Pecorino Taste Like? (And Why It's Called That) — 33:26

RTB: Oh, wait, but one more thing. Yeah? Tell us about pecorino. What it what it tastes like.

TF: Generally, pecorino is, first of all, why pecorino? The name. That's interesting. Pecorino in Italian is sheep in English. So pecorino basically is the cheese that comes from the milk cows, sheep. But I think that the region is very hilly. And, we have, especially in the southern part of the region which where pecorino is located, we have a lot of sheeps during, you know, especially in the summer when the shepherd brings the the sheeps towards the hill because they, they can get feed it that they find much more on cross.

It looks like the the sheeps love the grape. There are two option that the sheeps love the grape or the sheep was eating the grape, but we don't really exactly know which is the true. Probably the shepherd because usually sheeps eat the grass.

RTB: But there is this vision or this legend at least. Yeah, that the sheep were eating the pecorino grapes.

TF: Yeah. So that's the name, pecorino, which is a fun name because people think, oh my God, cheese. It doesn't taste like cheese because it will be a big problem. You know why? I would say there is a lot of, tropicals through it, especially Marche is a kind of aromatic. Manteca is an explosion of flavor. Very rich, very intense, well liked, is a little bit leaner. More leaner then, pecorino, probably this is the reason why. The the reason why is, you know, ice in the last two years, it's, believe me, the sales of pecorino. Hello.

RTB: Wow, that's such a good trend to know about. I love pecorino, I love white wines in Italy. With that kind of thing.

TF: Because these are characteristic of these, you know, big splash. And you have this white wine that is really wrapping your mouth.

RTB: I love pecorino, if you haven't tried one yet, get one. Okay, so now we can talk about the Reds. I think it's.

## Rosso Piceno: The "Perfect Wedding" of Montepulciano and Sangiovese — 35:30

TF: So we talk about the red, the, red grape production, of course. And the highest production in tons is Sangiovese and Montepulciano. I don't know which one is high, but they are the the biggest production. I wouldn't talk about Sangiovese in Marche because a Sangiovese is such a. You need an entire podcast just for Sangiovese. Maybe for Montepulciano as well.

RTB: Are the ones typically a blend of Sangiovese and.

TF: Yes, yes, yes. So if we talk about the wine, there is a very delicious blend with Montepulciano, Sangiovese and the the name of the wine is Rosso Piceno DOC. I usually called the perfect wedding.

RTB: Oh, tell me why.

TF: Because the Montepulciano is a little bit. It has power. It has color. But the in terms of flavor, it's a bit rustic. Can be, you know, close in the I would say when you have a 100% Montepulciano like a reserva like something like this, it's the one that needs a little bit to prefer. It's a wine that that needs to get open.

Where the Sangiovese of course, is, probably one of the grape that has the elegance and the smoothness. And this fresh or so I think is a perfect wedding for these two different characteristics of these two grapes. Also, Rosso Piceno is is really a great value wine because, you can I have again I, I'm not suggesting maybe some people knows lower for but there are some wine in Rosso Piceno that really you you pay around 18 on the shelf but you think is much more expensive wine, especially if you compared to some Tuscany wine that are much more, you know, popular on Samos.

This is my suggest. So for all the, you know, the American people, of course, we are in New York City and you have, usually from first day to Saturday. Almost every one store does in-store testing. Don't be shy. That's how talk about Italian wines, but can be for every other wine taste. You have the fortune that you have the wine from all over the world. Experience in time. So white wine explorer don't stop to Pinot Grigio for Italy. Prosecco and count their good wines. Of course, you can keep on drinking because they are good wines. But there is a an entire world to taste. That's really my passionate the suggest.

RTB: I agree completely.

## More Red Wines from the Marche — 38:32

Are there any other red wines besides the one you just mentioned that we should know about?

TF: So we mentioned the Lacrima. We mentioned the Vernaccia Nera.

RTB: You know, there's something that I've tasted which is a wine made with wine grapes and cherries.

## Visciole: The "Dangerous Wine" Made with Cherries — 38:49

TF: I call it dangerous wine.

RTB: Tell us about.

TF: This. You you're talking about the visciole. So visciole, first of all, he said the name of the cherry they are wild cherries, they are very small and, very sour. So you don't taste fresh fruit? Usually the farmer, they pick up the cherry, they put in the this big green glass jar and the sugar on the alcohol. Okay, basically you pick up the cherries and you macerate in sugar.

You blend that, this sirup I try to keep simple because the process is a little bit more technical. Basically, this visciole is a blend with wine and cherries. Then the the difference is the base wine, because typically at the beginning it was used Sangiovese and in some cases and Montepulciano Sangiovese a blend. But I would say the best the result is a with Lacrima di Morro d'Alba because. So you have all the aromatic profile of Lacrima. Okay. And then, the perfect match with the cherries. So there are not many producers doing a with Lacrima. You usually find the Velenosi, with the Lacrima and, luckily, Lacrima di Morro d'Alba in cherry or, Lucchetti.

RTB: There's a shield on the bottle, and it's kind of a little.

TF: Box, a little bottle. They are both a little bottle. The bottle are very similar. On the label is a different,

RTB: So if you see this visciole, try.

TF: Yes. Steel is red. Think that that you need to drink as a white wine. I know that the people say, I don't drink. Dessert wine. I agree, you don't drink dessert wine every day, but this is very different. First of all, the alcohol is low because it's around 14, 14.5 points. Thinks that an Amarone must be higher than 15.

It's true. It's sweet because there is sugar, but you have the freshness of the cherry. So the perception is not. Sugar is more, it is more de cherry. First of all, you can even blend, for example, Prosecco and a splash of the visciole. Is a kind of kir royale.

RTB: Oh, that's so, so.

TF: Good in terms of food pairing is a for me, the perfect pairing is chocolate. There is one dessert to that you usually struggle to match with wine. And these are gelato. Gelato. It's very difficult to to match with wine, but in this case gelato or ice cream with the tragedy you can put a little bit on gelato. You kind of a that's a it's your choice. It's perfect. Cheesecake.

RTB: Oh my gosh. Let's go get some of that right now.

TF: There are some people that they like a with cheese. I am more on the on the dessert. But I can see like, you know, some cream cheese, some very delicate cheese. Definitely it works. And again, my passionate suggestion is a drink. What you like with the food you like, maybe for dessert is the exception. Dessert needs to be mentioned with the dessert wine. When you go out for dinner and you are with friend. Just as fun.

RTB: Yeah. Relax.

TF: If you as the wine class is different, but food pairing is very complicated.

RTB: Yeah, so you don't have to be complicated about it. Yes. You want to get into it? Fine. You don't have to overthink it or worry that you're not doing it right. Just relax.

TF: It's a relaxing time. I mean, dinner, drink with the friend. Yeah.

RTB: \[music\]

## Opportunities and Challenges for Marche Wine Today — 42:36

What are some opportunities and challenges that you see for the wines at the Marche today?

TF: The big challenge is that, most people don't know Marche is so. So, that's why when I go to sell my wines from Marche. Yeah. With teas and these. Because this is, for me, my very first tool. Of course, won by. And most of the time to know what is Marche. And that's I have to say that the expertise level from what of one buyer is pretty high.

And in the United States and I am very sometimes I'm really impressed. But, the first challenge is that people that don't know basically anything about Marche. So that's I think it's very important to talk about the region, the culture, because the wine in Italy is really strict tied to the country, of the region, to the food of the region.

I think this is the biggest challenge because, sometimes the producer, tied to the big names, the big brand, which of course they made the great job. Most of them, they produce, you know, beautiful wine, but they can experience experience the region maybe the first time you don't get that because it's very, you know, it's much easier to buy an expensive wine where you had the comfort area that the Wine Spectator is given. 95, 96 and in any case, you you have some kind of solid, psychological background. It's much more difficult to find good wine at the right price. But there are a lot, that's for sure. It's a kind of, scouting job, but but.

RTB: That's a great that's a great tip for our our listeners. If you want to get we would say more bang for your buck. Yeah.

TF: Marche is really that's the big the big point. It has really, great value wine price a very affordable and the great quality on the other hand diet not popularity and not too well. Not well.

RTB: We can change that today with this show. Past episodes if use it everywhere. So how is this region being affected by climate change?

## How Climate Change Is Affecting the Marche — 44:57

TF: I have to say that since the 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023 is very hot, still. Thanks. The the bank can stream. We still have some benefit that the ease of doing a little bit of thermoregulation. I believe that the farmer everywhere in Italy, they need to consider these, and they are they are already considering this climate change for example, I remember that in 2021, I visited Calabria, and it was very hot here.

And the food that all the vineyards were totally \[unclear\] and everything was pretty green. And they say, why say you're we're used to the hot climate. The so they have much more leaves. Hunger is normal. Maybe the problem was not even to central Italy, but the more in the north they had these, you know, care. But the. I'm pretty sure that you already, you know, arrange range, fix the problem in the vineyards.

RTB: Meaning that if there's a lot of sun, you might leave more green leaves to shade the grapes so they don't get sunburned. Maybe you need to learn from the South how to adjust.

TF: I am not a viticulture, but only a little. Now you have all the hybrid grapes, but this is very technical. It should give more acidity, but it is very technical. Working in the vineyards probably is like a to to give them more coverage with the leaves. See you have more protection.

## What Else Should You Know About the Marche? — 46:29

RTB: So is there anything else you want the world to know about the Marche okay.

TF: So when you visit Italy first you can't miss Rome. Please visit Rome. After Rome, consider Marche, you have a 20 region. Of course I'm not say, of course. Veneto is beautiful. I mean, all the region are beautiful. I don't know where you an ugly place. You need to leave. Everywhere is beautiful. But you know, consider this region. It's not only Marche. There are other regions that are not the well-known. Like Tuscany, Veneto, Sicily, Piedmont, now Puglia.

RTB: I have not been to the Marche, but I would love to visit. I want to see that glass lake. I want to get some shoes. I want to drink some Vernaccia di Serrapetrona.

TF: And Garofanata.

RTB: Garofanata. So is that a red or it's a white?

TF: It's a white.

RTB: It's a white. Okay. Tiziana, how can people get in touch with you if there's someone here in New York where you're working as a wine expert and you promote these grapes, if someone from an importer or in the education realm wants to get in touch with you and work with you, how can people find you and know about you on Instagram?

## Connect with Tiziana Forni — 47:40

TF: Is a Tiziana Forni where you can share my email, which is tiziana.forni@gmail.com. So I am LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook.

RTB: So if you want to work with Tiziana you know how to get in touch. I can help connect you. She's here in New York doing important work wine, education, consulting, etc. I.

TF: Need to find more Italian wine specialist.

RTB: This Italian wine specialist is available in New York if you need one. And I appreciate you coming on the show today. It was wonderful to speak with you.

TF: Thank you so much, Rose.

## Tiziana's Secret Voice-Acting Role — 48:20

RTB: Guys. So fun fact too. You may recognize Tiziana's voice because Tiziana was the voice actor for the one episode that we did in translation season one, episode eight and nine, I did an interview with Lindsay Szper, which was a very important interview linguistically for me. We transcribed, translated, and recreated the episode with a voice actor, and after that.

TF: That was a tough.

RTB: Word. That was the the one time we did that where someone just spoke English, we made it available in Italian. So if you go to the Italian podcast, you can hear Tiziana's voice, check that out. And if you didn't know, you can listen to this podcast in Italian, Modo di Bere Italiano. Or if you're listening to this on YouTube Modo di Bere podcast, you can go to the Italian playlist and see those videos could be a language learning tool.

## Outro — 48:50

So if you use the podcast as a language learning tool, please let me know. I want to hear how that's working for you.

To our listeners, thank you. Wherever you go and whatever you like to drink, always remember to enjoy your life and never stop learning. Support us on Patreon! Grab the newsletter at Modo di Bere.com and subscribe to the YouTube channel at Modo di Bere to watch the travel show Modo di Bere TV. Music for the show was composed by Ersilia. Prosperi for the band Ou. Purchase their music at the link in the notes. \[music\]

*\[NOTE: We are no longer using Patreon! Become a member* [*right here*](https://www.mododibere.com/#/portal/) *to support Modo di Bere & unlock exclusive content.\]*

Music composed by Ersilia Prosperi for the band Ou: [www.oumusic.bandcamp.com](http://www.oumusic.bandcamp.com/?ref=mododibere.com)  
Buy their newest album: [folderolrecords.bandcamp.com](https://folderolrecords.bandcamp.com/?ref=mododibere.com)

Produced and recorded by Rose Thomas Bannister  
Audio and video edited by [Giulia Àlvarez-Katz](https://www.giulia-ak.com/?ref=mododibere.com)  
Audio assistance by [Steve Silverstein](https://www.instagram.com/steveco.worldwide/?ref=mododibere.com)

[ Ou's New Album "Uranio" ](https://www.mododibere.com/podcasts/en/s3e13-ou-uranio/) [ Italian Slang & American Cheese ](https://www.mododibere.com/podcasts/en/s3e11-giulia-alvarez-katz/)